Warming plugins

[Bob Olhsson]

Originally Posted by Alécio Costa

Yes, in some specific material I was able to listen to this somewhat edginess.
So, it is worth upsampling all the 44k 24 files here to 96k 24 or 88.2k 24 and later do the BTD, right?

It depends on the quality of the upsampling and how much a particular device benefits. There's no getting away from listening to your particular tools to make such decisions.

Theory is great but real world tools can be broken and not perform according to theory.

[nickynicknick]

A great plug warmer is the URS Classic Console Strip Pro...not really intended as a warming plug...but...if used right, is the best warmer I've ever heard...more so than the URS Saturation plug...which is great.

Nick

[heathen]

I dunno I don't think there is one. I think nearly all of them I've heard sound better when switched off.

I find I get more warmth, depth punch, (insert other descriptions here) and joy from my old neumann or telefunken eq's in 5 seconds than any "warming plug" on the market and that's before I even switch in any comps/limiters.

[nickynicknick]

Originally Posted by heathen

I dunno I don't think there is one. I think nearly all of them I've heard sound better when switched off.

I find I get more warmth, depth punch, (insert other descriptions here) and joy from my old neumann or telefunken eq's in 5 seconds than any "warming plug" on the market and that's before I even switch in any comps/limiters.

well of course they are warm...dudes asking what the best plug is...is your answer "my vintage telefunken eq's plug ( in bypass)"?????

[KEYBEEETSSS]

Originally Posted by Alécio Costa

The Process section of the Hedd192 is unbeatable, but it is hardware.
Plug-ins:
1) Crane Phoenix
2) PSP Vintage Warmer II, Saturator II
3) Mc DSP AC1, AC2

Since he did state Plugs, I favor #2 & 3, less the Vintage Warmer which I use to like until I tried the MixSaturator...Tapehead works on certain things as well...

[Adam Dempsey]

Originally Posted by nickynicknick

well of course they are warm...dudes asking what the best plug is...is your answer "my vintage telefunken eq's plug ( in bypass)"?????

Um, see also here, here, here and here.

But yes, preventing things from going "cold" in the first place, via good headroom A-D & dsp, has always tended to work, in my experience.

I've also used to good effect a (very subtly mixed in) soft knee comp plug in, in parallel with hi shelf cut EQ on the returns, somewhat similarly to the TC MD4 as mentioned by Bob K.

[bob katz]

Originally Posted by Alécio Costa

Yes, in some specific material I was able to listen to this somewhat edginess.
So, it is worth upsampling all the 44k 24 files here to 96k 24 or 88.2k 24 and later do the BTD, right?

Thanks

Probably. If you are going to do any digital non-linear processes, especially distortion generators (warmers) or the warmth will be accompanied by harshness, sort of defeats the purpose, doesn't it?

Around here we routinely upsample anything that is not already at 88.2 or 96K and then don't think twice about it. The biggest hit (loss) is the downsampling, not the up.

Some exceptions have been purist classical music projects already recorded at 44.1K and which are not going to undergo any compression. There I would feel the losses of upsampling outweigh any so-called advantages.

BK

[markus enochson]

as far as plugs are concerned (non hardware)

Crane Song Phoenix

best plug out there in my opinion.

markus

[kjg]

Originally Posted by bob katz

Around here we routinely upsample anything that is not already at 88.2 or 96K and then don't think twice about it.
BK

Hi Bob,

Do you still use the Weiss hardware SRC? Any other suggestions for asynchronous SRC these days? Or is the Weiss really the only one that can do it with high enough quality?

regards,
Klaas-Jan

[skiltrip]

I use Massey Tape-Head for this. Super economical and it's just awesome. Always put it on snare, and often on piano, guitars.

[bob katz]

Originally Posted by kjg

Hi Bob,

Do you still use the Weiss hardware SRC? Any other suggestions for asynchronous SRC these days? Or is the Weiss really the only one that can do it with high enough quality?

regards,
Klaas-Jan

I think it was in another thread on upsampling that we discussed the contenders. I still believe the Weiss Saracon is marginally the best SRC on the market, certainly the fastest! Look in the other thread for the other contenders. The Saracon is based on the identical algorithms used in the hardware unit, but it is one generation better. It is marginally higher resolution than the hardware unit in a careful shootout, but so subtly that I don't feel guilty about using my SRC-2 (hardware) for my downsampling chores and the Saracon for the upsampling. In the most purist project I audition through the SFC-2 so I can hear the 44.1K and dither it to 16 and make my dithering choices---in real time. Then afterward I take a 96K capture and pass it through Saracon. Overkill, really.

BK

[bob katz]

Originally Posted by bob katz

I think it was in another thread on upsampling that we discussed the contenders. I still believe the Weiss Saracon is marginally the best SRC on the market, certainly the fastest! Look in the other thread for the other contenders. The Saracon is based on the identical algorithms used in the hardware unit, but it is one generation better. It is marginally higher resolution than the hardware unit in a careful shootout, but so subtly that I don't feel guilty about using my SRC-2 (hardware) for my downsampling chores and the Saracon for the upsampling. In the most purist project I audition through the SFC-2 so I can hear the 44.1K and dither it to 16 and make my dithering choices---in real time. Then afterward I take a 96K capture and pass it through Saracon. Overkill, really.

BK

As for asynchronous SRC, I believe the Crystal 8420 chip does the nicest job of all the three major hardware ASRC contenders. The Crystal chip is very transparent, and someday I'll shoot it out against Saracon. I blew up a test board I was building with the Crystal chip, so it will have to wait.

BK

[kjg]

Originally Posted by bob katz

As for asynchronous SRC, I believe the Crystal 8420 chip does the nicest job of all the three major hardware ASRC contenders. The Crystal chip is very transparent, and someday I'll shoot it out against Saracon. I blew up a test board I was building with the Crystal chip, so it will have to wait.

BK

Thank you, Bob

[heathen]

Originally Posted by nickynicknick

well of course they are warm...dudes asking what the best plug is...is your answer "my vintage telefunken eq's plug ( in bypass)"?????

I actually said I don't like any of them I've heard. I've tried quite a few and spent hours screwing with them for no joy what so ever. Some of these old eq's can be bought for less than a plugin bundle and sound 10X better. To me urs plugs are some of the worst sounding plugs on the market.

I'll still use plugs occasionally but usually during or after some type of analog processing.

Also alot of people think distortion plugs or some type of tube emulated limiting plugs are what they think they need when usually some very nice eq will give more warmth and tone than any of these others in a quarter of the time.

Last album I mixed the producer sent out a couple of the tracks for purely digital mastering on the recommendation of a well respected producer/engineer he knows, the test masters sounded terrible, I could have done it better. So he went with an ME who uses nearly all analog gear in one of the best listening environments available and we were totally blown away by the end result, could not have been better I believe.

[smoke]

Originally Posted by macc

Voxengo VariSaturator

Do you feel that VV gets a tad flappy when you drive the low into the red? And do you generally bypass the digital stage? I find I like the valve stage much better, but I like to push the general drive and keep the Low and High band gain at a reasonable level. Also it really sounds WAY better at 8x ovrsmpl. The tube preset is a good starting point.