BBE Sonic Maximizer

[ryanlss9]

Hey everyone.

I'm new here and don't want to start a new thread about this piece of gear.

So I have the BBE 482i Sonic Maximizer. I've easily set it up on individual instruments.

But I'm having a tough time figuring out how I can get it across an entire mix. Supposedly it's fairly easy on analog gear, but I just feel kind of lost.

I have a 003 rack+ and am running PT LE 7.4.

Can someone give me a hand please? Thanks.

-ryan

[Edward_Vinatea]

Originally Posted by ryanlss9

Hey everyone.

I'm new here and don't want to start a new thread about this piece of gear.

So I have the BBE 482i Sonic Maximizer. I've easily set it up on individual instruments.

But I'm having a tough time figuring out how I can get it across an entire mix. Supposedly it's fairly easy on analog gear, but I just feel kind of lost.

I have a 003 rack+ and am running PT LE 7.4.

Can someone give me a hand please? Thanks.

-ryan

You don't mention your monitor speakers. BBE is not needed if your speaker monitors have a good frequency response. Don't use it to brighten or beef up mixes unless your monitors, PA system, DJ system etc sound too muddy. BBE is a phase/amplitude integrity correction unit and shouldn't be used for mastering and even for mixing if - again - your monitoring system is accurate or at least in that vicinity.

Hope this helps,

[masteringhouse]

There have been some very rare occasions where I've used the BBE plug-in from Nomad factory on a bass stem (weak muddy bass). I've also used amp simulators on bass stems to distort slightly and make a wimpy bass "larger" (all with the client's approval).

I don't see the point of using a BBE over an entire mix, though I've known some engineers who have run their mixes through guitar stompboxes for an effect. If you're trying to use this unit to add clarity to a muddy mix, look elsewhere.

[MASSIVE Master]

I wouldn't put one across a mix on a bet.

That said - It inserts just like anything else. Output goes to Input, then output goes to input again.

[Edward_Vinatea]

Originally Posted by MASSIVE Master

I wouldn't put one across a mix on a bet.

That said - It inserts just like anything else. Output goes to Input, then output goes to input again.

Just to make sure OP gets this, "output goes to input again" meaning the input of all unbalanced amplifiers, pre-amps, PA systems, DJ systems, , etc, or if you prefer, the outs of guitar and synthesizer racks to your mixer or DAW.

Regards,

[wado1942]

I don't think a lot of people quite get what this unit does.
It's a 3-way crossover that applies a delay to the highest band and a slightly shorter delay to the mid-band while leaving the low band alone. That's all it does, though you have control over the levels for mixing the band back together. It's designed to help compensate for the poor alignment of drivers within large speaker cabinets (notice how the tweeters are further forward than the woofers?) used for PA systems. They have no place in any kind of studio.

[Edward_Vinatea]

Originally Posted by wado1942

I don't think a lot of people quite get what this unit does.
It's a 3-way crossover that applies a delay to the highest band and a slightly shorter delay to the mid-band while leaving the low band alone. That's all it does, though you have control over the levels for mixing the band back together. It's designed to help compensate for the poor alignment of drivers within large speaker cabinets (notice how the tweeters are further forward than the woofers?) used for PA systems. They have no place in any kind of studio.

Agreed. What you describe is phase and amplitude correction and thus the reason it should go in before PA systems. But, you can also use them in guitar and keyboards racks to add some type of phase distortion effects. In the old days I used the BBE "Maxie" to make cleaner sounding cassette copies.

[masteringhouse]

Originally Posted by wado1942

I don't think a lot of people quite get what this unit does.
It's a 3-way crossover that applies a delay to the highest band and a slightly shorter delay to the mid-band while leaving the low band alone. That's all it does, though you have control over the levels for mixing the band back together. It's designed to help compensate for the poor alignment of drivers within large speaker cabinets (notice how the tweeters are further forward than the woofers?) used for PA systems. They have no place in any kind of studio.

From: BBE Technology Licensing

"Varying either the amplitude or the phase of the transients and harmonics within signal causes distortion of the sound's characteristics. By drastically altering the transient response of a sound, it's possible to make a cymbal crash seem like a car crash. "

Even for mono speaker systems (like a bass guitar cabinet) the effect is very noticeable. While the intent of the device may be to "correct" phase relationships between high and low freqs, it may be used otherwise.

[Jerry Tubb]

Originally Posted by MASSIVE Master

I wouldn't put one across a mix on a bet.

I've always regarded exciters, enhancers, and maximizers as silly quick-fix gimmicks that do more harm than good.

They easily grab the attention of unwashed neophyte listeners.

The initial fascination with the artificially wide and/or sizzley sound wears off quickly & grows tiresome much like watching a movie in 3D with those red/blue glasses.

That said, over the last 20 years I've conservatively used a variety of these gizmos a handful of times at the clients behest.

Admittedly I would be curious to try the Bedini B.A.S.E. unit but I've never had my hands on one : - )

After all, music an artform...

if you want to pipe it thru a Blattnerphone, Sackbut, or RatShack impedance transformer to achieve a desired effect... rock on.

JT

[wado1942]

I WILL state that running a Rhodes through an Aurel Exciter gives some pretty cool results. But that's just a horribly dull beast of an instrument. That's about the only time I'd use any kind of "enhancer".

[Denny McNerney]

i'm sorry, but a few people here are buying the complete marketing nonsense that BBE is selling.

I understand phase shift problems, and the benefits of time alignment.

but how can FIXED delay times, with some arbitrary FIXED chosen crossover points to divide the bass, mid and high frequency bands, correct the time alignment problems between drivers in a multitude of different speaker designs and brands (all w/ different crossover points), or an indeterminate amount of different variables in pa systems (all w/ VARIABLE crossover points)?

and remember, we're NOT talking about pa systems circa 2003-2009, with line arrays and lake processors, either. BBE was talking this crap in 1985.

bob katz is correct, it's a distortion generator.
the aphex aural exciter in the later '70's was another one.
...and wow, aphex had the studios over a barrel with that one for a few seconds.
google the history of that one...
i'm sure a few other older engineers here will remember what aphex tried to pull with that invention.

but, they were fun for about five minutes.

[Peakly]

Originally Posted by wado1942

I WILL state that running a Rhodes through an Aurel Exciter gives some pretty cool results. But that's just a horribly dull beast of an instrument.

Are you talking about the Fender Rhodes electric piano that Herbie Hancock, Chick Corea, and a bunch of other guys played for years? I had a couple of them, and they were smoking. But you need to set it up right.

[space2012]

any maximizer, enhancer, aural exiter, etc...
bellari, aphex, bbe, drg+, etc...

are usually devices that have a crossover with fixed or user variable freq.
and a harmonic generator dedicated for each band.
some emulate harmonics of tubes, some of tape, some other kinds of harmonics more linear, etc..
a wet/dry mix knob for each crossover band, usually 2, bass and highs.
to mix the artificially generated harmonics with the "dry" original signal.

people complaining about them,
i see are people that dont understand them,
and dont know how to operate them.

they are used in mastering in electronic music for creative purposes,
also for correcting recordings in rooms with bad acoustics,
for military/police speach enhancement comunication devices, etc...

aphex rented those at $50usd. an hour, when the war was over,
dont know if it was vietnam or 2nd world war, that were invented for.
then was verry used in recording studios, hollywood movies, etc..

it all depends in the ears & hands usign it.
like everything else, too much in excess is bad.

they all sound different, its nice to use diferent brands to have a new harmonic blend.
and all comes down to personal taste,
i liked verry much aphex ae 104 in juno-60 and dbx 120xp in tb303 and some juno-60 leads, but didnt liked in yamaha tx7

[space2012]

Originally Posted by wado1942

I don't think a lot of people quite get what this unit does.
It's a 3-way crossover that applies a delay to the highest band and a slightly shorter delay to the mid-band while leaving the low band alone. That's all it does, though you have control over the levels for mixing the band back together. It's designed to help compensate for the poor alignment of drivers within large speaker cabinets (notice how the tweeters are further forward than the woofers?) used for PA systems. They have no place in any kind of studio.

only the aphex 250 plays with timing for bass signals, adds punch when timing is proper or look ahead.
all others are harmonic enhacers/gererators/regenerators.

creativity is the limit

[Russell Dawkins]

Originally Posted by wado1942

I don't think a lot of people quite get what this unit does.
It's a 3-way crossover that applies a delay to the highest band and a slightly shorter delay to the mid-band while leaving the low band alone. That's all it does, though you have control over the levels for mixing the band back together. It's designed to help compensate for the poor alignment of drivers within large speaker cabinets (notice how the tweeters are further forward than the woofers?) used for PA systems. They have no place in any kind of studio.

Not quite. This is an excerpt from BBE's white paper on their process:

"... There are several different versions of BBE process. The most authentic BBE process works as follows; BBE divides the frequency band into three. The low frequency range is below 145Hz, mid range is 145Hz to 2.5KHz and the high frequency range is over 2.5KHz. Most of fundamental frequencies are inside the mid frequency range, and the higher harmonics are in the high frequency range. The low and mid frequency ranges are delayed 2.5mS and 0.5mS (smooth linear delay with no steps) respectively compared to the high frequency range. The high frequency range is not delayed. Therefore the higher frequencies reach the ear before the fundamentals as they do in natural live sound...."

from the bottom of this page: Welcome to BBE Sound

[12ax7]

I used to use it live on lead vocals right after a compressor.

In the old days, sometimes I'd use it when mixing when a multitrack analog would come in from somewhere else, and had a muddy sounding track. Sometimes it would help.

...Other than that, the only time I ever put it across a two-mix was when dubbing cassettes from 1/4 inch.

[Jimmi Accardi]

I used a BBE about 20 years ago when all I had for a source master was a dull sounding cassette tape. I ran the cassette through the BBE on it's way to a reel to reel machine to make a master. I only used it slightly and it sounded pretty good for that application but bad for most other things (except for occasional use on a single instrument but very rarely). There's a brashness to it.

[soulstudios]

Hoorah, let's open a 1-year-old thread.

[12ax7]

Originally Posted by soulstudios

Hoorah, let's open a 1-year-old thread.

Didn't notice that.

(Wonder why it showed up when I clicked on "new posts"?)

...Hmmm.

[Suda Badri]

Well its open now!

There are certain presets on the eventide H3000 that can be quite murky and I have stuck those signals through a maxie and the result was a clearer effect but its got no other use, maybe changing the tone of a reverb but in parallel, I try not to pass whole signals through the maxie, maybe to tame things that sound too phasey or ambiguous but for $50 its a pretty good little box really...

[Ged]

The thing I don't like about the BBE on the master buss is it sounds better for like a minute -

till you listen back later and go..."..Dude...wheres my mids?"

[12ax7]

Originally Posted by Suda Badri

Well its open now!

There are certain presets on the eventide H3000 that can be quite murky and I have stuck those signals through a maxie and the result was a clearer effect but its got no other use, maybe changing the tone of a reverb but in parallel, I try not to pass whole signals through the maxie, maybe to tame things that sound too phasey or ambiguous but for $50 its a pretty good little box really...

That reminds me of another use for the BBE:

Using it just ahead of an old spring reverb to add a bit of sparkle. (Often works better than EQ for this purpose.)

[Suda Badri]

I have my own custom spring reverb (just 2 storm shakers connected at their springs and I stick the mic in one end and point source at the other) will try add pics, Ill try use BBE after it and report back...

[jadiae]

Originally Posted by bob katz

BBE is not a "psychoacoustic processor". It's a distortion generator, and it can sound quite nasty. But regardless, I agree with the sentiment.

and it can sound quite nasty+1