Andy Wallace mix = LOUD master?

[Tranny-Cap-Tube]

Does Andy's mixing allow for louder masters? I was trying to get one of my clients songs to be as hot as Chevelles' 'The Red' and though I can get the same relative freq. response and RMS levels, the percieved hugeness of his mix is overwhelmingly loud(liki 2-3 dbs more). Or is the percieved loudness achieved by the mastering engineer?

I'm thinking that Andy pushing the console into saturation could be a big part of it.

[lord_bunny]

a long time ago i ripped nevermind into the daw and took a look at the wave-form. dynamic in comparison to my pre-masters!

i think all good mixers are about trying to achieve maximum illusion for minimum voltage, and anyone who's REALLY good at that has maximized thier mixes loudness potential so that it can be further increased by the ME.

so while saturation may be a part of that, it's also about juggling frequencies and making room for everything to sit well. anyone can make a hot mix or master, but at the same rms Andy Wallace or anyone of his calibre is going to have a mix that is percieved as bigger and this is because of their superior effeciency with the headroom they have.

i hate listening to his mixes! they're mushy but defined, wet but up front, punchy but soft and easy on the ears... all the instruments are defined without any harshness. my ego can't take it.

[bgrotto]

Originally Posted by lord_bunny

i hate listening to his mixes! they're mushy but defined, wet but up front, punchy but soft and easy on the ears... all the instruments are defined without any harshness. my ego can't take it.

Ha! That's a big +1!!thumbsup

[Tranny-Cap-Tube]

Could mixing to tape be part of it?

[bgrotto]

Originally Posted by Tranny-Cap-Tube

Could mixing to tape be part of it?

I mix to tape almost exclusively, and I still suck...

I don't think that's the answer.

[Never1]

Originally Posted by bgrotto

Ha! That's a big +1!!thumbsup

haha +2!!!!!

No, but it really does come down to the arrangement; period.

You'll often hear mix AE's talk about taking away elements in a mix as opposed to adding things, and this is the reason. The more things that are present means the less real estate you've got.

If you pay close attention to Andy Wallace's mixes, he always has a few very upfront elements to focus on and everything else really takes a back seat.

These elements might remain fairly constant throughout the mix (a la Nevermind) or ever changing (a la Chinese Democracy), but one thing is for sure... he pushes the important things and loses the "candy".

Also, hitting the SSL buss comp from the get-go has alot to do with controlling the spikes in a mix. When set correctly you can really ride elements in a mix without creating any weird spikes and peaks that limit your mix's loudness potential; it's sort of compressing without hearing the compression. I love the effect for rock music. (bear in mind I have no experience with the real consoles but have used the duende and waves versions alot and this is what I discovered from my experience with those imitations, though the duende is not an imitation.. just not quite like the real deal, r so I'm told .... )

[Winey]

Andy mixes just like any of us. He's just better at it.
Believe me Andy's mixes have peaks.

A good mastering engineer will get a mix nice and loud without completely destroying it in the process.
These guys aren't just putting an L2 on shaving off 2db and calling it a day.

[RCM - Ronan]

I heard an Andy Wallace mix before and after mastering. Its was almost identical except that the mastered one was a couple dB louder. They both sounded huge.

[Tranny-Cap-Tube]

So it is him not the ME. I thought so. He must be squeezing every last bit of headroom out of the SSL. Slamming the transformers is awesome.

[Edward_Vinatea]

Indeed the loudness starts at the mix. Every great record including the insanely loud ones follow a procedure after tracking. To separate instruments better and save headroom - each track is carved out of any unnecessary frequencies. Usually low and mid-low harmonics, sometimes high harmonics content. Then some of the fundamentals are filtered out as well to avoid masking with other instrument parts with similar frequencies. Compression is also applied to some of these tracks to tighten them up and also save headroom {especially at the bottom end}. Leveling and panning which also creates the stereo image completes the process. Obviously there is some compromise to the dynamics - but different from smacking them with a peak limiter. This is a summarized explanation of how you get real loudness but you get the idea.

Regards,

[XLR2XLR]

That's be it slamming the transformer in the SSL, yeah right.

[Winey]

Originally Posted by XLR2XLR

That's be it slamming the transformer in the SSL, yeah right.

Yep. I'm sure Andy Wallace has no peaks in his mixes like everyone else.
Every drum he mixes is pre clipped and L2'd.
Then transformer-slammerized to add the final magic.

[prismtheory]

Originally Posted by rcm

I heard an Andy Wallace mix before and after mastering. Its was almost identical except that the mastered one was a couple dB louder. They both sounded huge.

Ive always wanted to hear that!