Korg MR-1000 vs Alesis Masterdisk as Mastering capture devices

[UpNSmoke]

I'm interested in acquiring a capture device for mastering and am looking at these two units.

the Masterlink is looking a little long in the tooth, but it has AES/EBU I/O which would allow me to bypass it's converters and use either my HEDD as the A/D going into it.

The MR-100 only has analog I/O, but the converters on it are supposed to be something..

Anyone compare these two in a mastering situation?

Michael

[lucey]

The Masterlink AD sucks, skip it. The MR-1000 is cheap DSD, and it's very nice ... and if you do a $175 modification to the AD side analog parts it's even better (as in better than a lot of high end ADs).

Both units take a little extra time as you need to move the data from their internal HD. Neither is useful for mastering as the work flow is just bad, never mind the sound.

[DSD_Mastering]

I'd second the MR1000. I have a modified Masterlink and the Korg is so much better.
Send the DSD files to someone who can master in that format.


Regards,

[lucey]

Originally Posted by DSD_Mastering

Send the DSD files to someone who can master in that format.

Yes, please do...



Plus with the korg you have a great stereo field recorder with batteries.

The mod is very nice, cleans up the low end and opens the top a tad. Very close to a perfect I/O reproduction, and at the least, no smear.

[UpNSmoke]

Thanks so much for the replies Brian and Bruce

So the MR-1000 has the ability to record both DSD AND 44.1/16-bit?

[lucey]

Originally Posted by UpNSmoke

Thanks so much for the replies Brian and Bruce

So the MR-1000 has the ability to record both DSD AND 44.1/16-bit?

DSD is a different way of making audio into numbers than PCM, or what we think of as 'digital audio'. It goes flat to 100k, has sample rates in the 2.8 (SACD) and 5.6 range. 1 bit. It's bizarre, I know.

The Korg has software included that you can use to convert to PCM at a lot of sample rates. (A friend in LA uses them to record things for TV/film sound design, and the beauty of DSD for him is that no amount of time stretching or pitch stretching messes with it.) DSD has great depth and low level realism, no smeary hot spots.

[UpNSmoke]

Brain, thanks again - you know your stuff!

Yes, DSD sounds like a weird beast. From what I understand, Sony dropped the format and it has one foot in the grave - not that this would have a bearing on my purchase.

Out of curiosity, what is a typical way you're using it? Are you capturing at 44.1/16-bit or are you capturing at higher rates and converting them to 44.1 via the Korg software? Does the Korg software have a dither algorithm in it - Pow-R, MBM, etc..? I preemptively apologize for these newbie questions..

[lucey]

Originally Posted by UpNSmoke

Brain, thanks again - you know your stuff!

Yes, DSD sounds like a weird beast. From what I understand, Sony dropped the format and it has one foot in the grave - not that this would have a bearing on my purchase.

Out of curiosity, what is a typical way you're using it? Are you capturing at 44.1/16-bit or are you capturing at higher rates and converting them to 44.1 via the Korg software? Does the Korg software have a dither algorithm in it - Pow-R, MBM, etc..? I preemptively apologize for these newbie questions..

It's an expensive and in the main, dead format. This box was made to get DSD in consumers hands for cheap. The tapers were the target but some heavy hitter mixers use them too. I like the $175 input side upgrade as it really does get you something special for a song.

I have the unit in my private mix room, and we capture 1 bit, 5.6 DFF and then master from that. In the meantime, I'll convert to 24/44.1 and import to Samplitude to plan out the mix edits (non-automated analog console mixes). The included software does the conversion nicely, but you could use Weiss Saracon if you have that already, which I doubt from your questions and budget.

[UpNSmoke]

I might actually go the route of getting the Korg and the $175 upgrade as you suggested..

I've heard of Saracon, but have not used it as of yet. I see there' s an LE version that seems to be within my budget:

Weiss Saracon Light - PCM Sampling Rate Conversion Software for PC/Mac | VintageKing.com

but it doesn't look like it converts DSD to PCM.

[lucey]

Originally Posted by UpNSmoke

I see there' s an LE version that seems to be within my budget:

Weiss Saracon Light - PCM Sampling Rate Conversion Software for PC/Mac | VintageKing.com

but it doesn't look like it converts DSD to PCM.

The included software is totally fine, the PCM from 5.6 to 24/44.1 sounds great.

[MR WOO]

I have also done the mod for the MR-1000.It sounds great!!!! I'd like to thank Brian for the heads up on that mod. I thought capturing at 5.6 was nonsense,from all the posts about higher resolutions, until I got my MR-1000. Things have changed.

[UpNSmoke]

Aw man...and now I just learned about this unit:

Korg MR2000S

the metering looks nice, especially for a mixdown deck - but I'm not sure that and the added S/PIDF is worth the extra $1K...

[DSD_Mastering]

As good as the Korg is, I still prefer my Tascam DV-RA1000HD. I have both units and rely on the Tascam most of the time and here's why.
Even with the upgrade on the Korg unit, I can use my DAD and Meitner converters with the Tascam. You can't do that with the Korg. For location work, I use my DAD with built-in pres and connect to the Tascam for absolute clarity. With the Korg, you're kinda' "stuck" with the onboard pre's/converters.
I've heard many recordings with the Korg and also receive hundreds of files from clients that have tracked their bands and such. They do sound amazing.. but in a mastering situation, you want that last 2% that the Korg just doesn't have. For a mixdown deck, it's perfect. I usually just drag the files off the HD and import into the DAW, instead of playing them into the DAW and recording. A great combo would be either the Neve DPD or Mytek DSD into the Tascam!

Regards,

[lucey]

It's not high end for DSD, true enough, but did you get the AD mod on the Korg and try it against the Tascam as stock?

[DSD_Mastering]

Originally Posted by lucey

It's not high end for DSD, true enough, but did you get the AD mod on the Korg and try it against the Tascam as stock?

Yes, against the stock Tascam DSD converters... it's better! thumbsup


Regards,

[bcgood]

Originally Posted by DSD_Mastering

Yes, against the stock Tascam DSD converters... it's better! thumbsup


Regards,

Witch is witch and who is who?

[DSD_Mastering]

Originally Posted by bcgood

Witch is witch and who is who?

The modified MR1000 sounds better than the stock Tascam DV-RA1000!


Regards,

[bcgood]

Originally Posted by DSD_Mastering

The modified MR1000 sounds better than the stock Tascam DV-RA1000!


Regards,

Thanks for the clarification Bruce.

I'm interested in trying out the new Korg MR 2000. I like the fact that you can go straight into it via XLR with no pre amp in the path.

[Rev. Robb]

The Masterlink makes a great CD player!!

[ed littman]

Originally Posted by lucey

The included software is totally fine, the PCM from 5.6 to 24/44.1 sounds great.

In it's stock form, a client brought in the MR-1000 & we both heard that the software did'nt sound as good as just simply capturing through my ADC at 44.1.
IMO, it's a great box if used like a tape machine. From what I heard i would not use the software.

The Masterlink makes a great CD player!!

I always thought is was a bit clunky to use for just that.

Ed

[Edward_Vinatea]

Originally Posted by UpNSmoke

I'm interested in acquiring a capture device for mastering and am looking at these two units.
the Masterlink is looking a little long in the tooth, but it has AES/EBU I/O which would allow me to bypass it's converters and use either my HEDD as the A/D going into it.

I use a ML-9600 from time to time but I don't use its AD input. I wouldn't dismiss the idea of buying one if you have a HEDD AD as your main converter {I use it with an Apogee}. This unit is cheaper than the Korg's and if you're going to make simple audio CDs with it and not apply some serious DSP - it should work fine and pristine. However, you won't be able to program accurately the pre-gaping information, text or ISRC codes on the discs. But, it allows you to correct levels and eq without great compromise to the sound and you can store it as a CD24 disc. As far as the rate of rejection by the plants {Master CDs} I've had mixed results but not too many problems.

Regards,

[lucey]

Originally Posted by ed littman

In it's stock form, a client brought in the MR-1000 & we both heard that the software did'nt sound as good as just simply capturing through my ADC at 44.1.
IMO, it's a great box if used like a tape machine. From what I heard i would not use the software.

The software is fine. With the AD mod it sounds better than most high end ADs if you go 5.6 then to 24/44.1. I just did some mastering with mixes from the box and was unable to detect much at all comparing the DSD playback processed vs. PCM DA after conversion. Remember that the internal DSDs DA audio path is not maxed out. TL072s or similar.

[Taavi]

I don't seem to understand what exactly that busman mod does to MR1000? Does it change something in AD converter or just makes those (awfully noisy) pre's better?

(As I don't like those pre's it has, I use SoundDevices MixPre...)

[lucey]

Originally Posted by Taavi

I don't seem to understand what exactly that busman mod does to MR1000? Does it change something in AD converter or just makes those (awfully noisy) pre's better?

Replaces the surface mount ICs in the input side and four caps as well. This effects the pres as well as the line in. The net is a cleaner low and high end, still not perfect to the source, but closer than stock, which has a dark top and low mid bump/haze.

Some people like it stock, as it sounds like tape to them. Terry Manning was using it stock over 1/2" IIRC. So it's not bad stock, but I do prefer the Input mod.