Ambiance Recovery/Early Reflection Recreation/Routing?

[DozerMayne]

If you feel this technique is a bit of a secret, feel free to PM me.

I am looking for any info I can get on these subjects.
If anyone knows of any links,books, or anything, let me know.
Thanks.

Basically akin to K-Stereo Im guessing.

Ambiance Recovery
or
Early Reflection Recreation

Used during the mastering stage.

Unique set of attenuation stepped delay lines.

Using the AUX/Send to send the amount to the track being mastered.

I am wondering how you would set this up in a multitrack environment.
Such as Cubase-Sonar-Adobe Audition.

[Greg Reierson]

Seems like a recipe for disaster in mastering. All of that stuff is the domain of the mixing engineer and producer.


GR

[Thomas W. Bethe]

Doesn't Bob Katz's processor do that? See K-Stereo

[MASSIVE Master]

Sounds like he's talking about adding reverb...

[Nordenstam]

AES E-Library: Extraction of Ambiance Information from Ordinary Recordings by Madsen, E. Roerbaek

Process for enhancing the existing ambience, imaging, depth, clarity and spaciousness of sound recordings - US Patent 7076071 description

[DozerMayne]

I came across a mastering engineer that mentioned "early reflection recreation" and said it was a secret technique.
I mentioned K-Stereo, Ambiance Recreation, and he said he isnt a fan, that his technique is more complex.
We were sharing mastering chains.
He gave me a photo shapshot of the track insert/fx area and the Master Buss.
I noticed an Aux send, with level dialed end on the track insert(where the track that was being mastered was).
I know this is the Ambiance Recreation send level, I show one way of doing something like this below.

Anyway...
On another note.

We were talking about it in this post,back in the day. It was regarding K-Stereo
I am "DaGSpotSoldier" at futureproducers.com

I was saying mono in the post, but that was a mistake I believe, really meant
Stereo file with just left information(minus right)

Loss of impact when mastering - Page 5 - Future Producers
However page 4 is when we begin discussing K-Stereo

So in a multitrack situation, to create the Wet Signal. Like Cubase SX3

Import Stereo Track-Mix down Left and Right channels seperately-
So now you have a Left and Right

Create 8 Audio Tracks.
On 4 of the audio tracks, import the "Left" sound file(4 Copies), and route these to Master Out "Right"(this sends the original Left mixdown, to the Right channel)
On the other 4 audio tracks, import the Right tracks(4 Copies), and route these to Master Out "Left"(this sends the original Right mixdown, to the Left channel)
On one of the Left copies, Insert effect

Now Lets take the 4 Original Left mixdowns first, that we are sending out to the Right Master Out, and as an insert for 1 of the 4, insert a delay effect with 15ms and attenuate volume to -15dB(or if your plugin allows, from within the plugin the "dry out" to "infinity reduction/mute", and the delay out -15dB, thereby allowing you to leave the audio channel volume at 0/no change)
Then move on to the next "copy of original left mixdown" and insert a 30ms delay and attenuate volume to -30dB
And so on

Then we work on the Copies of the Right mixdowns next, which we are sending out to the Left Master Out. And do the same thing.

Once completed, you now have the "Wet" mix.
With the Original Left channel mixdown, sent to the "right master out", with the delays.
ANd the Original Right channel mixdown, sent to the "left master out", with the
delays.

Now mix down this Wet signal arrangment.

Create a new Session, create 2 Stereo Audio tracks.
Import the Stereo Track in one audio track, and the Wet mix into the other.
Now lower the volume of the wet mix to taste/loudness.

[staudio]

I sometimes use destructive IR convolution reverb (Peak Pro's Impulse Verb DSP) on a mix. Depending on the IR sample used, I think it sounds better than many realtime DSP reverb effects when working with stereo source material. There is also the mixing practice of using short delays to simulate wall/floor/ceiling reflections, which when combined with pre delayed reverb can simulate real ambience. Forgive me if my suggestions seem too obvious.

[Online-Mastering]

This idea just reminds me of K-Stereo. We use the K-Stereo (in the Algorithmix version) in our studios... Basically, it is a certain kind of delay line with delays with different starting points and different attenuation. Which are mixed into the track with a desired strength / level. The process is based on the Haas Effect (Haas)/ law of the first wavefront (Blauert).

I don't see why your approach is something totally different? Maybe you should try the K-Stereo...

Arne

[Virtalahde]

The rare occasion I need to do something like this, tasteful M/S EQ and/or slight convolution reverb seems to work.

Recently I literally drowned a 3-track single in reverb. The band wasn't happy about the way the mixing engineer had done a very dry sound, and they were after a David Lynch kinda feel. The band was present when I did it, and it worked out fine (and obviously changed the sound completely).

I quess that went to the "ambience generation" department anyway.

[DozerMayne]

Originally Posted by Online-Mastering

I don't see why your approach is something totally different? Maybe you should try the K-Stereo...

Arne

My approach isn't different. Someone elses is.
As far as reverb/ambiance, sometimes use the Wizoo W2. Just a touch.
But that is a different method from what Im discussing.