Expanding dynamics in mastering?

[doorknocker]

A bold thought maybe with today's 'nose pressed on window' sonics.

But I'm recording a kind of prog-rock project at the moment, it's a 5-song 'demo' rather than a full album but the players are really good and we have vaguely discussed using an outside mastering house. The music is really dynamic so I thought that the way to go in mastering would be to expand on this: Naturally getting the mix like that but does any of you mastering pros actually ever get such a request? Say a Tool-ish band that asks for 'symphonic' dynamics?

I think that digital is a great medium for that, you won't have problems with hiss and even with 16-bit there is a huge potential for dynamics. And I don't mean 'we're glad that the waveform actually decreases during the breakdown section' but rather real ebb and flow. I know that Peter Gabriel's last record started like that, maybe it's more 'shock theraphy' there but actually I wouldn't limit (pun intended) dynamics to just piano-forte but also to the frequency spectrum: Say a soft, sparkling intro turning into a steely, bright and heavy hitting chorus?

Any thoughts?

[Lagerfeldt]

Yeah, if you're interested in this subject you should get the Flux Solera+ or rather the Flux Alchemist.

That's probably the best dynamic plug-in available, with some extremely interesting possibilities for dynamic control: Compressor, De-Compressor, Expander and De-Expander. Not to mention feedback based auto-adjustable ratio and "intelligent" threshold (for compression independent of actual levels), ratio+range (very handy), variable peak/rms, min+max release, etc.

Knock yourself out.

Originally Posted by doorknocker

I wouldn't limit (pun intended) dynamics to just piano-forte but also to the frequency spectrum: Say a soft, sparkling intro turning into a steely, bright and heavy hitting chorus?

This is possible with the Flux Alchemist (the multiband version) using the alternative dynamic controls and internal parallel compression.

[doorknocker]

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt

Yeah, if you're interested in this subject you should get the Flux Solera+ or rather the Flux Alchemist.

That's probably the best dynamic plug-in available, with some extremely interesting possibilities for dynamic control: Compressor, De-Compressor, Expander and De-Expander. Not to mention feedback based auto-adjustable ratio and intelligent threshold, ratio+range (very handy), variable peak/rms, min/max release, etc.

Knock yourself out.

Do you mean that this would be done in the mix? I'm not a mastering engineer and my idea would be to have the ME expand on the mix instead of making it flatter like it has become standard procedure these days.

[Online-Mastering]

Yes, the Alchimist Lagerfeldt mentioned, is a very good tool for all these kinds of dynamic manipulation. And: Sure it I can be done in mastering stage, but this should be done in the mix with the individual channels adjuted as good as possible to achieve that certain effect.

If you mean, the Alchimist should already be used on the SUM / MIX BUSS then I agree with you, that you could bring the project to a mastering house and tell them your sonic ideas... But, as said before, try to mix it as good as you can (with this effect in mind).

Generally speaking: For sure a mastering studio can create or (better) enhance that effect by using different sonic possibities like Expansion, automated EQing (the thing that you mentioned: Get bright in the chorus), Parallel compression (makes your mix sound fuller while preserving dynamic impact) and manual gain riding...

The better your mix already creates that atmosphere / effect, the better it can be used by a mastering engineer to enhance that specific feeling.

Arne

[Storyville]

Are you talking macro or micro dynamics? Dynamics can mean a number of things. Either way, they should generally be handled in the mix.

Before thinking of compressors/decompressors/expanders etc. Think about fader adjustments for macrodynamics.

For microdynamics, well, that's a long subject in how they can be treated.

[miscreant]

Depending on the source material and the degree of dynamic enhancement clients are looking for, I've had good luck gently applying a little SPL Transient Designer. It's only good for minimal bumps when applied to a two-track, but used sparingly it can certainly increase the percieved punch of a tune.

[big-king-rb]

i love solera on room or overhead mics.. you can paint out each detail you need!

[doorknocker]

Originally Posted by Storyville

Are you talking macro or micro dynamics? Dynamics can mean a number of things. Either way, they should generally be handled in the mix.

Before thinking of compressors/decompressors/expanders etc. Think about fader adjustments for macrodynamics.

For microdynamics, well, that's a long subject in how they can be treated.

Yes, I want to do this in the mix. Also, the music itself is pretty dynamic so it's also about 'letting things flow' and not counteract the dynamics by riding the faders, something which we all do constantly I dare to say. I mean for a 'radio pop' song you most likely want a very small dynamic range in terms of volume changes. For better of worse, this is usually applied even more during mastering.

My idea is pretty much doing the opposite: Using the mastering process to expand on the dynamics (that are already there like I want them to be in the mix). The mastering should still deal with loudness (since I'm leaving a lot of headroom in general) but it should also 'glorify' the dynamics.