Consumer DA's distortion

[tmcconnell]

It seems to me like any "loud" record distorts my DA converters - which happen to be pretty good converters (mytek). I guess it could be something downstream from there but... it seems like limiters, analog or digital, when trying to push the output to the limit, may also be pushing their own internal pathways to or beyond the limit. Is this my imagination?

(downstream are a passive preamp with massive headroom, a Conrad Johnsen Amp and Line arrays which do 96db with one watt - and have a lot of room to spare.)

Am I just going crazy, or... is distortion just the way of the world and I should just shut up and live with it. I only ask because when clients ask me to master their records - which I am not fully qualified to do - almost any limiter or compressor I apply just smears the signal - and the clients hear that. When I apply analog boxes there is no smear but there is a lot of coloration - often nice. Anything but the most delicate compression really messes wth the sound. get a life? or get a better compressor? ted

[MASSIVE Master]

I've heard plenty of converters that sound like complete a$$ when you push them with high RMS signals. Nothing unusual. Probably more than not for that matter... Heck, one of the best converters I own (Bel Canto e.One DAC3) is stunning when you're not pushing it - and totally worthless if you hit it too hard.

It being "the way of the world" is the crappy part...

[Silver Sonya]

This topic is right-on, but wholly depressing.

I suppose it was only human nature that was going to drive us to treat digital audio this way.

Digital audio: All this dynamic range that nobody, apparently, ever wants to hear.

*sigh* Madness! Absolute madness.

Yes, modern CDs often shred great D/A converters. Dirty little secret of pro audio. But God help us all if this becomes the new benchmark (forgive the pun). If we start rating our D/As on how well they can take being punished by loudness war practices, we're headed straight to hell. We should measure our D/As on how well they handle extreme dynamic range not the other way around!!

It's like the vulgar "Which converter sounds best when it is clipped?" discussions at AES a couple of years ago. Remember those? I mean, it's like, what did you just ask me? Listen to yourself talk, man!

Cranesong, Troisi, Benchmark, Lavry, Apogee... all of these fantastic converters sound increasingly consumer-grade (and worse) as the RMS increases towards loudness war proportions. The difference between a fancy DA and a more ordinary one slowly disappears when you're listening to zero dynamic range. This may be a controversial opinion on my part, but it is strongly held.

In other words, that sumptuous Lavry Gold depth-of-field doesn't mean a whole lot when it's playing the new Metallica record. Anyone who says it does is drinking the Emperor's new Kool-Aid.

Someone should write a book called The Death Of Audio 1990-2010. Of course that is hopeful that things are beginning to turn around now? It seems like people are willing to say enough is enough, finally. Rock music sounds like porridge now. Ground up, undifferentiated porridge.

- c

[Audiop]

You sure that it isn't the CD that is smashed and crushed with compression and limiting?

That is the norm these days it seems.

Turn Me Up! | Bringing Dynamics Back To Music


/Peter

[Dan Lavry]

Originally Posted by tmcconnell

It seems to me like any "loud" record distorts my DA converters - which happen to be pretty good converters (mytek). I guess it could be something downstream from there but... it seems like limiters, analog or digital, when trying to push the output to the limit, may also be pushing their own internal pathways to or beyond the limit. Is this my imagination?

(downstream are a passive preamp with massive headroom, a Conrad Johnsen Amp and Line arrays which do 96db with one watt - and have a lot of room to spare.)

Am I just going crazy, or... is distortion just the way of the world and I should just shut up and live with it. I only ask because when clients ask me to master their records - which I am not fully qualified to do - almost any limiter or compressor I apply just smears the signal - and the clients hear that. When I apply analog boxes there is no smear but there is a lot of coloration - often nice. Anything but the most delicate compression really messes wth the sound. get a life? or get a better compressor? ted

There is a lot of clipping going on this days and that is very sad.

However, there is also a technical issue, a "mechanism" specific to DA's, near the peaks. So I do not know what your specific problem is.

The interpolation done in the oversampling engine may cause data to be computed over the maximum allowed digital amplitude. When such computed data happens, given the nature of digital (min and max digital codes), it has to be "clipped" to a min or max value. That is clipping, and it sounds like clipping. Of course it happens when the signals are near the peaks, and does depend on the original data (music).

A good DA will not exhibite that behaviour. Most lower end DA's do.

That sort of stuff would rarely happen even on a consumer DA, if the original music were kept to say -3dB from full scale. But many seem to be in a mad race for louder and louder...

Regrads
Dan Lavry

[Lagerfeldt]

Check this out for some listening examples of 0dBFS+ distortion

Programmed for Distortion
Listen to the artifacts produced when hot CDs are sample rate converted or reproduced in a CD player. From TC Electronic.

http://www.tcelectronic.com/media/Pr...Distortion.zip

[soundsundergroun]

most records these days are crammed with intersample peaks. that could be what you're hearing