Who makes better mastering engineers - musicians or non-musicians?

[lucey]

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

The biggest challenge in audio production is the fact that we tend to hear less and imagine more with every listening. (This, by the way, is why there can be no such thing as "self-mastering.")

A real trap for experienced musicians is that they tend to be satisfied when they can hear everything, it's all in tune and rhythmically together. This is often achieved at the expense of both character and focused communication with the listeners who are mostly non-musicians.

A mastering engineer needs to be able to tell when to leave something alone, i.e. what the intent of the mix was so that any changes only focus the intent better rather than diluting or otherwise altering it. We generally work with the presentation of mixes and only "fix" things that were obviously unintended. I'd say a passion for listening to great music and great audio is far more important than experience as a musician.

Come on Bob ... there is no dogma here and everyone can argue from their unique experience all day long and be wrong about someone else's skills or right path. Some musicians are equal parts listeners of great audio and great music.

Daniel Lanois and Pierre Marchand .... two of my personal inspirations. Musicians, producers, mixers, even masterers at times ... and the results speak for themselves.

Self-mastering is VERY difficult and in 99% of the cases it should be avoided. It requires unique skill sets, unique rooms, and a whole lot of personal discipline that is really more trouble than it's worth for all but a few. But it is possible to do well.

If there is any trap for musicians in production it's that they want their instrument loud in the mix, not that they want to "hear it all equally". If you had all the musicians present in the room and they were all happy at the same time, then yes, you've nailed it ... when they all hear themselves they're all happy ... and that mix is boring and lacks vision.

[Bob Olhsson]

Originally Posted by lucey

Some musicians are equal parts listeners of great audio and great music.

That was my point but you left the end of what I wrote out of your quote!

[lucey]

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

That was my point but you left the end of what I wrote out of your quote!

Sorry, I just hit quote, maybe you did a quick edit.

[masteringhouse]

I've known some drummers who are very good engineers, so no you don't have to be a musician to be a good engineer.

[Thomas W. Bethe]

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

The biggest challenge in audio production is the fact that we tend to hear less and imagine more with every listening. (This, by the way, is why there can be no such thing as "self-mastering.")

A real trap for experienced musicians is that they tend to be satisfied when they can hear everything, it's all in tune and rhythmically together. This is often achieved at the expense of both character and focused communication with the listeners who are mostly non-musicians.

A mastering engineer needs to be able to tell when to leave something alone, i.e. what the intent of the mix was so that any changes only focus the intent better rather than diluting or otherwise altering it. We generally work with the presentation of mixes and only "fix" things that were obviously unintended. I'd say a passion for listening to great music and great audio is far more important than experience as a musician. Ludwig and Sax are two of the most passionate music and audio fans that you'll ever meet. That's undoubtedly also why they became great players but it isn't necessarily why a lot of people become great musicians.

I have to agree with this. A lot of people who try and do everything themselves wind up not doing anything well but they somehow convince themselves that they have done it all and it sounds GREAT!

I had a band in here a couple of years ago that could not stop fighting about how things should sound. Everyone wanted to be the star and they even went so far as to check each person's part with a level meter to make sure everyone was at the same level before the did the mixdown. They simply combined all of the channels at 25% (four piece band) and that is how they brought their stuff to me. Well it did not sound like anything I had ever heard before or since. There was no attempt at getting the balances right but just mixed down at 25% each. This band had been self recording this album for over a year and the final product sounded like so much dogie do do. They all came to the mastering session and were still arguing about the levels. I listened to about five of their tracks and handed the project back to them saying that I could not really master this since it was not correctly mixed down. They got very upset and left. I understand subsequently that they went to a couple of other mastering places and were told the same thing. They told one person, who is a friend, that they had done a superior job on this recording and mixdown and were infuriated that people were telling them it did not sound good. Finally someone some where told them that he would remix it and they agreed but when the mixdown was suppose to happen they all showed up and could not get together on how it was "suppose" to sound. The last time I heard about this group they had split up and nothing ever came of the CD they were trying to produce. Sometimes a band can be their own worst enemy.

[Edward_Vinatea]

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

I'd say a passion for listening to great music and great audio is far more important than experience as a musician. Ludwig and Sax are two of the most passionate music and audio fans that you'll ever meet. That's undoubtedly also why they became great players but it isn't necessarily why a lot of people become great musicians.

Agreed and IMHO - there is no greater passion than to make great music. The irony is that you'll never know when you actually do that.

Best regards,

[PatrikT]

Two objective ears makes the best ME.

[Bob Yordan]

Originally Posted by masteringhouse

I've known some drummers who are very good engineers, so no you don't have to be a musician to be a good engineer.

[jdg]

Originally Posted by masteringhouse

I've known some drummers who are very good engineers, so no you don't have to be a musician to be a good engineer.

hahaha omfg, i did a spit take on that