Simulation of Tape Saturation

[cemski]

Hello!
I was looking for some information on tape saturation and it's simulation. All threads here seem old or not informative enough.Using my 1/4" machine got too expensive and complicating for me plus noise is often a problem. what do you think comes closest on the simulation side for mastering purposes?

[Cellotron]

Originally Posted by cemski

Hello!
I was looking for some information on tape saturation and it's simulation. All threads here seem old or not informative enough.Using my 1/4" machine got too expensive and complicating for me plus noise is often a problem. what do you think comes closest on the simulation side for mastering purposes?

I've yet to hear it but, the Anamod hardware has gotten some good reviews, and seems like it would be worthy of a demo. The Portico box is another possibility but to my ear does not sound that close to true tape saturation - and the controls are very tweaky on it so it makes recalls very difficult.

I've yet to hear any digital tape saturation emulation plugin that to my ear actually made things sound better (as compared to simply leaving it off) when placed across the 2-bus. ommv.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[cemski]

Originally Posted by Cellotron

I've yet to hear any digital tape saturation emulation plugin that to my ear actually made things sound better (as compared to simply leaving it off) when placed across the 2-bus. ommv.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

Thanks for replying!
I agree in Full. Maybe i was just wishing technology has found the holy grail In my place nobody brings tapes for mastering anymore. So my machine is reduced to an effect processor...

[ed littman]

Crane Song HEDD
While nothing replaces Tracking to tape. the HEDD adds something to the mids That an eq can't do nor my MCI JH110. The MCI is tranformerless so at times I wish I had my old Ampex 440b back to hear.

Ed

[MASSIVE Master]

Another for the tape emulation on the HEDD. Layback is a thing of the past.

[Thor]

We have a Studer A80 as well as a Stellavox SM8, but to be honest the HEDD gets used more often than not. It's very nice for those mixes that need it, just a tad puts everything right.

Cheers,
Thor

[Greg Reierson]

Originally Posted by Cellotron

I've yet to hear it but, the Anamod hardware has gotten some good reviews, and seems like it would be worthy of a demo.

I heard it at AES and thought it was pretty cool through headphones. I need to call about a demo. Very different that the HEDD (which I have and love). I think it could be a very useful color box in the rack.


GR

[Strobian]

+1 for the HEDD

Also check out the UAD Maximizer plug in, the name is confusing, but it does supply a bit of saturation process, pretty nice actually.

[Beyersound]

Has any body tried the Colortone tape convos? The Yamaha/Steinberg in their plugin bundle?

[graincloud]

i'd also like to have some shared views on colortone, but also on Voxengo's tapebus (i found lovely to shape drums @ mixing, but never really took time to check its benefit in mastering)

i also read a fair amount of amazed comments about Nebula's tape sims, haven't tried that neither...

[Jerry Tubb]

I used Crane Song Phoenix "Dark Essence" on a big mastering project in PT HD yesterday.

It works beautifully, similar to CS HEDD as designed by Dave Hill.

The mixes for the most part were a little thin, bright, and bass lite... perhaps a mix monitoring issue.

CS Phoenix (and some generous EQ) was just the ticket to give it some cojones!

Alternatively I'll layback to my ATR from time to time, which also works great.

Since Phoenix is strictly PT TDM, I'll be looking for an Audio Units solution when I'm working in soundBlade.

JT

[chopstickkk]

+1 on desire for tritone colortone opinions from the pros...

anyone??

[tomdarude]

ANAMOD ...no contest

[DSD_Mastering]

The real tape circuitry in my Neve Masterpiece II. It's variable, has adjustable Hi/Mid/Lo input filters and phase reversal. For hardware tape emulation, there's none better. thumbsup

Yes... I've heard the HEDD and Anamod...


Regards,
Bruce

[dcollins]

Originally Posted by DSD_Mastering

The real tape circuitry in my Neve Masterpiece II. It's variable, has adjustable Hi/Mid/Lo input filters and phase reversal. For hardware tape emulation, there's none better. thumbsup

Yes... I've heard the HEDD and Anamod...

Is the Portico unit the same as what's in the Masterpiece? I did not care for it at all. And it didn't sound anything like tape.

Still need to get the Anamod on demo.


DC

[Bob Olhsson]

I think tape saturation is way overrated. Most of what I like is the way some transformers can focus the low-end. I'd generally take a nice tube line stage with some iron over tape or any emulation I've heard.

That said, I recently did a blusy rock project that my 1/4" machine here at the house was just exactly the ticket for.

[Everbeatz]

Originally Posted by Beyersound

Has any body tried the Colortone tape convos? The Yamaha/Steinberg in their plugin bundle?

The problem is ColorTone doesn't add harmonic distortion like tape - it's just an eq curve

[JPeters86]

Originally Posted by Strobian

Also check out the UAD Maximizer plug in, the name is confusing, but it does supply a bit of saturation process, pretty nice actually.

The UAD Maximizer is more tube-like if I'm correct. It adds harmonics that are characteristic for tube systems, not for tape devices. But I may be wrong.

In the plugin realm I think VirSyn VTape is still seen as one of the best plugs for tape saturation. I myself am really fond of PSP MixSaturator, the Tape 3 algorithm gets pretty close I think.

No experience with hardware.

[lucey]

Originally Posted by dcollins

Still need to get the Anamod on demo.

+1 for the Anamod ... the Portico sounds like an effect, but not fully like tape. The Anamod is much closer. I think they said it has 7 types of distortions going on, and that seems about right.

It's can be subtle to not so subtle, and it's always musical. It can't do super duper fat/saturated, but it comes close ... and it's pleasing overall.

Transformers are cool for the sub cut and low end push/distortion, but there's a lot more to tape than that.

The Hedd does a nice harmonic sparkle with a little Triode/Pentode but not the transformer thing or the top end of tape. The Tape knob on the HEDD is nothing close to the anamod, or to tape. The Portico is closer than that.

[soundgeezer]

+1 more for the Anamod.
Up to 4 different tape simulations, the best I have heard so far (haven't heart the 102 yet). The Ampex simulation is less subtle than the two onboard cards, though it adds it bit to much lowend to my task.

[Online-Mastering]

Hi folks,
my name is Arne Reichelt, this is my first post on gearslutz. Last two years I prefered to watch the discussions from the 'sidelines'. But now I decided to register as well. First, I would like to say 'hello' to everyone.

Now to the question: IMHO, the HEDD is a thing of its own right. It creates a certain effect, which can be useful depending on the material, but: The tape coloration is definitely NO close-to-tape-like processing. The unit is a good addition to an arsenal of sound-transforming tools, but if you really look for 100% tape sound, than you still have to go for the 'real thing'.

BUT: I haven't heard the ANAMOD yet, so maybe it is an option of choice

Added: And please do not get me wrong. I really like the HEDD but has its own sonic flavor and behaviour, which you should test if it suits your needs or not (Because you don't have many parameters to adjust. The question is: Put it in or not and with which strength of the effect, and that's it..)

[nickynicknick]

URS Saturation ...I'd be interested in hearing what you mastering guys think of it...very useful to me for mixing...allows about 6 different vibes...the 15 ips setting is very interesting..I like the fact that you can have just a touch or a ton. Let me know.

Nick

[bionic]

I own nearly all the URS stuff. I love it and I use it regularly - but I think the Saturation is one of their more average plugs. it is so subtle that I find myself not bothering with it anymore.
the HEDD is a great unit for harmonic distortion and a bit of leveling but it doesn't 'enlarge' the sound like tape can.
I agree that the biggest part of the sound we attribute to 'tape' is actually the quality of the transformers in the circuit, but the natural compression characteristics of tape is the other half of the equation. I grew up recording on tape and I have to say I am reaching a point where the inconsistencies of different tape machines across multiple studios just frustrates me now. It eats up a lot of time in the production process making sure it is set up right and sounds good.
A mate of mine is racking up his Ampeg line amplifiers from his old machine - keen to hear how much of the 'sound' is still there without the tape component of the chain...
will let you know what our thoughts are....

[nickynicknick]

Originally Posted by bionic

I own nearly all the URS stuff. I love it and I use it regularly - but I think the Saturation is one of their more average plugs. it is so subtle that I find myself not bothering with it anymore.
the HEDD is a great unit for harmonic distortion and a bit of leveling but it doesn't 'enlarge' the sound like tape can.
I agree that the biggest part of the sound we attribute to 'tape' is actually the quality of the transformers in the circuit, but the natural compression characteristics of tape is the other half of the equation. I grew up recording on tape and I have to say I am reaching a point where the inconsistencies of different tape machines across multiple studios just frustrates me now. It eats up a lot of time in the production process making sure it is set up right and sounds good.
A mate of mine is racking up his Ampeg line amplifiers from his old machine - keen to hear how much of the 'sound' is still there without the tape component of the chain...
will let you know what our thoughts are....

I think I probably agree with the tranformer part being more of the attraction than the tape..but that plug is not subtle at all, if it's pushed...have you used it in mastering?....thinking about more though I can't see too many instances where you would want to simulate tape at the mastering stage..wouldn't adding more harmonics at this stage be a little counterintuitive given the amount of limiting that is about to be applied...I guess as always it depends on the material...that would be my first instinct though.

Nick

[lucey]

Originally Posted by bionic

I agree that the biggest part of the sound we attribute to 'tape' is actually the quality of the transformers in the circuit, but the natural compression characteristics of tape is the other half of the equation.

I would say that half or more of what we equate with discrete tube gear is transformers. But tape is far more complex than 1/2 transformer, 1/2 compression. If you think about set up and levels to tape and the machine physically you get a long way there.

Take the Ampex MM1200 ...
Transformers and a class A path.
Bias (a huge part of it)
Rec EQ
Repro EQ
Tape Type
Level to tape and how that interacts with all of the above in terms of compression/saturation and eq.
Head type and all that goes with head designs
Speed and head bump from speed

And the meters ... which account for a LARGE part of the distortion in that machine at least.



I was impressed after hearing the AnaMod to hear Greg Gualtieri talk about 6 or 7 parameters that they implemented.

[Fleaman]

+1 for Anamod.
+3 for Anamod with the 350/351 card.

I have the Hedd and Fatso and while I like them both, they don't come anywhere close to the Anamod for that real tape effect.

[DSD_Mastering]

Originally Posted by dcollins

Is the Portico unit the same as what's in the Masterpiece? I did not care for it at all. And it didn't sound anything like tape.
DC

Nope... nothing like it. The Portico sounds almost amateurish compaired to the MP. I guess I also have the advantage that the MP signal is going through the main gain structure which has the Air Montserrat transformers.

Regards,
Bruce

[masteringhouse]

Originally Posted by Jerry Tubb

I used Crane Song Phoenix "Dark Essence" on a big mastering project in PT HD yesterday.

Also a fan of CS Phoenix. Hopefully AU or VST versions will be available.

[Beyersound]

Originally Posted by Everlast

The problem is ColorTone doesn't add harmonic distortion like tape - it's just an eq curve

Bollocks!!! I don't know if it was you, heard the same thing about the Hydratone "fire" knob. Just because there is some frequency amplitude change showing on an analyzer, doesn't mean that it's the only thing happening. Stop "seeing" audio, use your ears!

[thermos]

All I have to add is that I wouldn't use Colortone pro in a mastering situation. For me it kinda screws with the imaging, front to back, etc.