Warning regarding listening to iMac speakers

[Lagerfeldt]

A lot of musicians and producers have iMacs, especially at home. Sometime they might listen to or even evaluate stuff based on the internal speakers in the iMac instead of in the studio.

I've noticed a problem with this, at least on the 24" iMac and most likely on the 20" version too.

The problem is related only to the internal speakers and not to the headphones or the actual sound from the sound card (internal or other sound card):

There seems to be two stages of overload protection instead of the normal output overload protection.

The first stage is unusual since it seems to limit or compress the sound depending on the input instead of the output. This means that regardless of output level you will still get funny pumping if the playback file is mastered very hot. This is very noticeable with high frequencies, i.e. hi hats, etc.

You can also hear the effect if you're playing an mp3 and a system sound at the same time, both will be compressed as a sum. Which I take as further proof that it's the input and not the output which is being limited. It still seems there's some kind of overload protection on the output too.

Again, this only affects the internal speakers, not the headphones or any other output.

[Lagerfeldt]

Perhaps this should be moved to the Computer forum.

[Adam Dempsey]

Interesting observation. Obvious question is: if it's applied on the input, how is this showing up via only the built in speakers and not other outputs?

[j-uk]

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt

A lot of musicians and producers have iMacs, especially at home. Sometime they might listen to or even evaluate stuff based on the internal speakers in the iMac instead of in the studio.

I've noticed a problem with this, at least on the 24" iMac and most likely on the 20" version too.

The problem is related only to the internal speakers and not to the headphones or the actual sound from the sound card (internal or other sound card):

There seems to be two stages of overload protection instead of the normal output overload protection.

The first stage is unusual since it seems to limit or compress the sound depending on the input instead of the output. This means that regardless of output level you will still get funny pumping if the playback file is mastered very hot. This is very noticeable with high frequencies, i.e. hi hats, etc.

You can also hear the effect if you're playing an mp3 and a system sound at the same time, both will be compressed as a sum. Which I take as further proof that it's the input and not the output which is being limited. It still seems there's some kind of overload protection on the output too.

Again, this only affects the internal speakers, not the headphones or any other output.

Itunes sound enhancer ?

[steffen]

good info!

this "feature" seems to be built into all macs with speakers.
powerbooks do this too....drove me crazy....
a client once complained overcompression on his tracks.
it turned out he´s listening in the office on an eMac.

[Lagerfeldt]

Originally Posted by Boomshanka

Interesting observation. Obvious question is: if it's applied on the input, how is this showing up via only the built in speakers and not other outputs?

I don't think it's tied to the D/A or software but the input electronics of the speakers themselves.

That's why it doesn't affect any other outputs, and probably is purely hardware related.

Originally Posted by j-uk

Itunes sound enhancer ?

No, not related to iTunes for several reasons (as already mentioned):

1) Only happens with the internal speakers - no other outputs. iTunes sound enhancer would be limited to iTunes only and affect all outputs.
2) Happens with all playback (applications, system sounds, quick preview, etc.)

I didn't mention iTunes at all, but it will happen from iTunes too of course.

Originally Posted by steffen

good info!

this "feature" seems to be built into all macs with speakers.
powerbooks do this too....drove me crazy....
a client once complained overcompression on his tracks.
it turned out he´s listening in the office on an eMac.

I haven't noticed this particular kind of input protection but rather the normal output limitation. You might be very right, and this happens on many other machines though.

And for exactly the reason you mention we should be aware of the problem.

[2Low]

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt

I've noticed a problem with this, at least on the 24" iMac and most likely on the 20" version too.

There seems to be two stages of overload protection instead of the normal output overload protection.

!!! Old thread , but very important to me

I like to listen to my mixes on my office iMac ( Quicktime , not iTunes )
but there is some kind of compression , leveling going on ..strange
The iMac is my "second stage NS10" but something is weird with the volume

Can anybody recommend a set of small speakers ?

thanks

[da goose]

Originally Posted by 2Low

!!! Old thread , but very important to me

I like to listen to my mixes on my office iMac ( Quicktime , not iTunes )
but there is some kind of compression , leveling going on ..strange
The iMac is my "second stage NS10" but something is weird with the volume

Can anybody recommend a set of small speakers ?

thanks

why don't you get a REAL cheap set of computer speakers?
I bought this and they're quite bad (not as bad as i expected) so good for some reason if you know what i mean. ;-)
ALTERNATE - HARDWARE - Geluid - Speakers - Logitech LS11
I think they even look pretty cool.

[Jerrick]

Originally Posted by 2Low

!!! Old thread , but very important to me

I like to listen to my mixes on my office iMac ( Quicktime , not iTunes )
but there is some kind of compression , leveling going on ..strange
The iMac is my "second stage NS10" but something is weird with the volume

Can anybody recommend a set of small speakers ?

thanks

Just find a setup that looks cool and doesnt cost any more than $100.

[Thomas W. Bethe]

I would also worry about the frequency response or lack there of.

Here is a Mac app that will let you test your build in speakers. Test Your Apple Computer Speaker Frequency Response : Audio Test | Speaker Response | My Website

I tested one of my interns Mac Books and I could not hear any bass until about 150 Hz. Not great for listening to Hip Hop or Reggae. Apple does not even post specs for their speakers they are so bad. If people don't have a good enough playback system to judge what the mastering sounds like they should seek out someone who has the proper playback system BEFORE they critique your work IMHO.

[Table Of Tone]

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt

A lot of musicians and producers have iMacs, especially at home. Sometime they might listen to or even evaluate stuff based on the internal speakers in the iMac instead of in the studio.

I've noticed a problem with this, at least on the 24" iMac and most likely on the 20" version too.

The problem is related only to the internal speakers and not to the headphones or the actual sound from the sound card (internal or other sound card):

There seems to be two stages of overload protection instead of the normal output overload protection.

The first stage is unusual since it seems to limit or compress the sound depending on the input instead of the output. This means that regardless of output level you will still get funny pumping if the playback file is mastered very hot. This is very noticeable with high frequencies, i.e. hi hats, etc.

You can also hear the effect if you're playing an mp3 and a system sound at the same time, both will be compressed as a sum. Which I take as further proof that it's the input and not the output which is being limited. It still seems there's some kind of overload protection on the output too.

Again, this only affects the internal speakers, not the headphones or any other output.

Maybe Apple are trying to tell us something?

Maybe the guy that designed that system doesn't like loud records and is getting back at us?

[Th3_uN1Qu3]

Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe

I tested one of my interns Mac Books and I could not hear any bass until about 150 Hz.

That's the typical laptop speakers' response... And you can still hear 150Hz to some degree but the -3dB frequency is at ~200Hz most likely. Also, believe it or not, but many laptops have the speakers in ported "enclosures", which as you may guess is entirely pointless and makes them sound even worse.

Tuning frequencies are anywhere from 120 to 200-something Hz, and as you know, below the tuning frequency, the speaker behaves like it were in free air. Which means that if the amplifier feeding those speakers doesn't have a highpass filter built-in, the speakers will be damaged. I've seen quite a few laptops where one of the speakers has developed a rattling noise after an year or two of use, and also own one with this problem.