SSL compression in mastering - popular? Preferred SSL-style buss comp?

[666666]

I'll admit, I've never used an SSL or SSL-style buss comp... ever. I continue to read about how great they can be on the "right" material. They apparently have quite a color / character... and are often said to be great for rock music (and I do a lot of rock music - heavy).

Being that SSL compression is an area I have yet to explore, I'm of course very curious about it.

First question would be, if I was going to try to get my hands on one top-end SSL or SSL-style buss comp to test or even purchase, what would you guys recommend? (I'd prefer new, not vintage) Perhaps the new SSL XLogic G Series Compressor, or an Alan Smart, or...?

Second question... anyone here find they often use an SSL-style comp when mastering? Does this preference seem to arise often? Does an SSL-style comp add a color that is truly worth having when mastering rock? I can usually get desirable results out of a 2500... wondering if an SSL will blow my mind in terms of what it can do in terms of "rock color", or if the cost would not be justified considering a 2500 is already in the arsenal.

I guess I'm wondering just how much "magic" one of these SSL-style comps really has, or if it's simply over-rated and not truly "necessary" to have on hand.

Much appreciated.

[Lagerfeldt]

Solid State Logic | Music

Danfield Audio

Smart Research

Personally I have Gyraf SSL Type 4000 clone with a 80 Hz 6dB/Oct filter in the sidechain and transformer balanced outputs, all detented. I use it quite frequently although it might only be working 1-2 dB maximum. It can glue the mix a bit, and it's certainly great to have when mixing.

I'd get a Danfield 726 if I was you, it sounds absolutely fantastic, very close to the original SSL sound and also has a variable HPF. It's only EUR €1743 + shipping.

That said, if you already have an API 2500 and you don't have a real mastering compressor perhaps that's where you should look first, i.e. a Crane Song STC-8 or whatever rocks your boat.

[MASSIVE Master]

I have a somewhat "hot rodded" unit based on the Gyraf / 4000 E-G buss comp.

I'd much rather mix into one than use it during the mastering phase - And that's about the amount of use it gets. Pretty rare, but I'm glad I have it when I need it.

Most definitely (IMO) not something you should worry about until the cornerstone units are in the racks.

[david1103]

I am thinking on getting my first analogue mastering compressor, and have been hearing great things about the TK BC-1:

BC1

people are saying its like an SSL, but smoother and in many ways better. there is no way i could demo it where i am.

i am on a low budget, and this thing looks amazing. it has all the extra features that would really help in mastering like the HP filter and blend control.

what do you guys think? would this be a big step up from something like PSP mastercomp plugin?

cheers!

[MiserableSod]

SSL mix bus compression is traditionally applied during mixing not mastering.

[Doc Mixwell]

Originally Posted by david1103

I am thinking on getting my first analogue mastering compressor, and have been hearing great things about the TK BC-1:

BC1

people are saying its like an SSL, but smoother and in many ways better. there is no way i could demo it where i am.

i am on a low budget, and this thing looks amazing. it has all the extra features that would really help in mastering like the HP filter and blend control.

what do you guys think? would this be a big step up from something like PSP mastercomp plugin?

cheers!

+1 for the TK BC-1

However, its nothing like any SSL clone I've used. Its less "grabby" and "snappy", thus it is less "crunchy" and there is less adverse artifact from the action of compression in general. It does not act like any other VCA buss design I have used previously. I think this and most hardware compressors are better than plugs....yes. {i-m-e}

[tswp1]

Originally Posted by 666666

I'll admit, I've never used an SSL or SSL-style buss comp... ever. I continue to read about how great they can be on the "right" material. They apparently have quite a color / character... and are often said to be great for rock music (and I do a lot of rock music - heavy).

Being that SSL compression is an area I have yet to explore, I'm of course very curious about it.

First question would be, if I was going to try to get my hands on one top-end SSL or SSL-style buss comp to test or even purchase, what would you guys recommend? (I'd prefer new, not vintage) Perhaps the new SSL XLogic G Series Compressor, or an Alan Smart, or...?

Second question... anyone here find they often use an SSL-style comp when mastering? Does this preference seem to arise often? Does an SSL-style comp add a color that is truly worth having when mastering rock? I can usually get desirable results out of a 2500... wondering if an SSL will blow my mind in terms of what it can do in terms of "rock color", or if the cost would not be justified considering a 2500 is already in the arsenal.

I guess I'm wondering just how much "magic" one of these SSL-style comps really has, or if it's simply over-rated and not truly "necessary" to have on hand.

Much appreciated.

I've used older SSLs for tracking and mixing, love the stereo bus, a great finisher to a musical mix. I actually have friends that will rent a studio to run the mix through the st. bus on an SSL. I've done two sessions with the x logic stuff....sounds like SSL. But i noticed its just a bit less musical compared to the consoles i've used...but still a desirable sound, i'd go with the X Logic

[Bob Yordan]

Originally Posted by david1103

I am thinking on getting my first analogue mastering compressor, and have been hearing great things about the TK BC-1:

BC1

people are saying its like an SSL, but smoother and in many ways better. there is no way i could demo it where i am.

i am on a low budget, and this thing looks amazing. it has all the extra features that would really help in mastering like the HP filter and blend control.

what do you guys think? would this be a big step up from something like PSP mastercomp plugin?

cheers!

+1 , for usage during mixing.

[PrinsJan]

Originally Posted by 666666

I'll admit, I've never used an SSL or SSL-style buss comp... ever. I continue to read about how great they can be on the "right" material. They apparently have quite a color / character... and are often said to be great for rock music (and I do a lot of rock music - heavy).

Being that SSL compression is an area I have yet to explore, I'm of course very curious about it.

First question would be, if I was going to try to get my hands on one top-end SSL or SSL-style buss comp to test or even purchase, what would you guys recommend? (I'd prefer new, not vintage) Perhaps the new SSL XLogic G Series Compressor, or an Alan Smart, or...?

Second question... anyone here find they often use an SSL-style comp when mastering? Does this preference seem to arise often? Does an SSL-style comp add a color that is truly worth having when mastering rock? I can usually get desirable results out of a 2500... wondering if an SSL will blow my mind in terms of what it can do in terms of "rock color", or if the cost would not be justified considering a 2500 is already in the arsenal.

I guess I'm wondering just how much "magic" one of these SSL-style comps really has, or if it's simply over-rated and not truly "necessary" to have on hand.

Much appreciated.

Oh man API 2500 is fantastic allready, it's not that for from a SSL. I've got both and maybe love the API over a SSL for mastering.
API is SO versatile !! In my world is def a real mastering compressor, it can do the same as a Crane Song, Vertigo, SSL type compressor.

For rock color I would consider a Vari-Mu compressor (Manley, Phoenix).

Vari My and API 2500

[jayfrigo]

It's very interesting to hear the opinions in this thread. I find that I came to similar conclusions when considering the subject. SSL is used more in mixing than mastering, and since I get a lot of SSL mixes, there's not much point to me adding a second round of SSL in mastering. I considered the thought that maybe some indies working in home studios may like a little SSL sound added, but truly, a single comp at the end doesn't achieve an SSL sound, and in-the-box mixes seem to benefit more from the Manley. To get some of that rock snap, I also decided to go with an API 2500. I don't use it as much as my Manley vari-mu, but it's a great option to have around. Oh, and +1 on the Danfield if I were to go this route.

[JTR]

unlikely to find many M.E. using the SSL
(now of course, 5 will immediately post to the contrary)

it's a compressor that normally is mixed into - not added after the fact, either in mastering or to run final mixes through, prior to mastering

big difference between those 2

world of diff between it and the API too.

[bigbadwolf]

I use a great SSL 4000G when mixing, however I like my pendulum better for the 2-mix. The SSL plugs sound great as well. however I'm not a mastering engineer. None of the mastering guys I go to use an SSL comp. I see a lot of custom vari-mu's and some pendulums. i've seen an API once in a mastering studio. I like it when a M.E. has at least one great 2mix comp hanging around because I haven't been using them lately while mixing. It's sort of a challenge that I made for myself. Some great mid-range (pricewise) M.E.'s I've worked with are using plugs for a little buss compression in the beginning of their chain. And the results have been great.
best,
bt

[turtlerock]

wow I have been using an alan smart c1 for mastering since he started the whole thing in the late 80s mine is serial number 7
I have no idea how I would work without it
The gyraf versions are not even close to the glue of the ssl
Neither is the newer version al smart
I think you will actually see a lot of
them in the big mastering houses actually I know you will see them!

I am puzzled by this thread ?
Different strokes I guess

[jayfrigo]

Originally Posted by turtlerock

wow I have been using an alan smart c1 for mastering since he started the whole thing in the late 80s mine is serial number 7
I have no idea how I would work without it
The gyraf versions are not even close to the glue of the ssl
Neither is the newer version al smart
I think you will actually see a lot of
them in the big mastering houses actually I know you will see them!

I am puzzled by this thread ?
Different strokes I guess

I've seen a couple in mastering studios, but not many. Capitol had one in Mark's room before he left. That's about the only one that comes to mind right now, though I know I've seen them on a couple other gearlists; maybe Crystal in AUS?

They're certainly everywhere in mixing rigs (studio and engineer travel racks) but far less common in mastering. It doesn't mean they don't work. Clearly they do since they show up on a lot of mix busses, and perhaps that's partly why they don't show up in mastering studios. Why run it through the same thing twice?

I also felt it was a little coarse in the mastering studio when not weren't specifically looking for that sound. It was a box I would have used only in a minority of cases, so I passed. Funny though, I do like it a lot in mixing; but perspectives and intent are different between mixing and mastering.

[djwaudio]

Originally Posted by jayfrigo

, and +1 on the Danfield if I were to go this route.

Jay, Is that based on your impressions from the Syntifex model? Or have you used the hardware?

[turtlerock]

Gateway have them ,I thought precision had one ....sterling? Anyways I use them a lot on rock in the box mixes ,I sidechain it sometimes
We get a lot of old school neve mixes here in oz
It really helps them along
I have a lot of limiters- all the usual suspects and some wierd ones
The al smart gets used at least three times a week
I have been Playing with the weiss limiter for a month
It's kind of the exact opposite to the ssl
Ssl is coloured glue weiss is transparent paint
I hate to admit it in case some tube hound gets on my case
but I find the weiss very Cool I should have looked into it years ago

[Ecktronic]

I use the Waves SSL 4000 comp, its definitely worth trying out.
I think you can get a trial version of it below: Waves Waves SSL 4000 Collection

Its real nice for mixing on the master bus, but I do sometimes use it when mastering.

Eck

[jayfrigo]

Originally Posted by turtlerock

Gateway have them ,I thought precision had one ....sterling? Anyways I use them a lot on rock in the box mixes ,I sidechain it sometimes
We get a lot of old school neve mixes here in oz
It really helps them along

That sounds like a good application for it. As for rooms, Gateway I think uses the 6 channel comp for surround (not quite the same design). Sterling, with all those guys, somebody there must have one (they have everything else!), but I don't know for sure. Precision I didn't think had one, but heck, gear lists change all the time.

They definitely have a use. I'd get one just to have available if I had oodles of money, and I really do like the 6 channel one for surround work (don't own it myself, but have used it a lot). The program is less likely to have been through an SSL bus comp on a 5.1 project than stereo, and perhaps that's part of it. Maybe it's really the double dipping that I don't like.

Dana, re: Danfield, the Sintefex sample is cool and I've used it, but the hardware and the sample are never quite exactly the same in all behaviors. I haven't used the current Danfield stereo piece, but based on past positive experience with Danfield comps, I'd be comfortable that it would be as I expected. I can't imagine it's gone too far off the deep end. They are rare animals though.

[Lagerfeldt]

Originally Posted by jayfrigo

Dana, re: Danfield, the Sintefex sample is cool and I've used it, but the hardware and the sample are never quite exactly the same in all behaviors. I haven't used the current Danfield stereo piece, but based on past positive experience with Danfield comps, I'd be comfortable that it would be as I expected. I can't imagine it's gone too far off the deep end. They are rare animals though.

Danfield started producing the 726 again, same sound but this time with a variable HPF.

Danfield Audio

I'm also looking at getting the Danfield monitor controller (not on the website yet).

[turtlerock]

i am with you jay on the idea of double dipping with an ssl limiter
but i am sure bob has a stereo one, oh yeah pretty sure i read an interview in our mag (audio technology) about marcussen raving about them for mastering as well in the new room
so i am surprised about the lack of users here

i think the diy clones has lowered the perception of these things

my al smart has the dual mono mode which sounds way better then the standard ssl stereo version , its a very clever mode that all the new clones have seemed to left behind.
the early al smarts ran dbx chips as well which sound like ... well they sound like an ssl
the new chipset is much cleaner and not quite right imo

[Ricey]

Originally Posted by turtlerock

the early al smarts ran dbx chips as well which sound like ... well they sound like an ssl
the new chipset is much cleaner and not quite right imo

that's interesting - would this be an easy mod on my smart c2?

[Bob Olhsson]

There's a very popular sound that is created by how a bass and kick drum interact with an SSL. The problem is that you need to have separate control over each element in order to get it to work right. The same is true of most "colorful" overall signal processing. The color glues things together but you often need to create greater contrasts between different elements of the mix than you would without the overall processing.

[turtlerock]

Originally Posted by Ricey

that's interesting - would this be an easy mod on my smart c2?

nah the c2 is a very different beast to a c1 nothing like the c1 inside really...
and of course the new c1s you can buy today are based on the new vca chip set and have been for years

the c2 is technically better on every level except it doesnt sound quite right to me
its way cleaner .. though

[Ricey]

Originally Posted by turtlerock

nah the c2 is a very different beast to a c1 nothing like the c1 inside really...
and of course the new c1s you can buy today are based on the new vca chip set and have been for years

the c2 is technically better on every level except it doesnt sound quite right to me
its way cleaner .. though

i thought as much, thanks for confirming - i love the c2 but i miss that one 'thing' that the ssl g384 does.

[yeloocproducer]

Don't Brian and Bernie have modified (power supplies, release constants) SSL G384s? I think they have pendulums over there now as well....

[jayfrigo]

Originally Posted by yeloocproducer

Don't Brian and Bernie have modified (power supplies, release constants) SSL G384s? I think they have pendulums over there now as well....

...and modified Aphex Dominators.

[marshallplexi]

To the OP: Man, if you're into rock / heavy stuff, you HAVE TO GET YOUR HANDS ON AN ORIGINAL SSL G384 !! I don't think there's anything that sounds like it (including the RI). If you don't like it on the mix buss, try it on drums NY style. This is a MUST HAVE piece of gear in my opinion. The way it grabs is quite unique and the punch you get out of it is made for hard hitting RAWK music !!

[yeloocproducer]

Originally Posted by jayfrigo

...and modified Aphex Dominators.

Reaaallyy...

Is that their main peak limiter?

[jayfrigo]

Originally Posted by yeloocproducer

Reaaallyy...

Is that their main peak limiter?

I don't know about "main," but it is one of the available choices.