Mixes :Perception of Volume in Mixes !

[Fuel]

Hi!
I realized and wonder the reasons why a Mix can sound and feels louder than others ?? when checking the Meters the one that sounds louder reads lower!!

That happens to me when I compare my Mixes.

I am talking about mixes with no limiting or maximizer ala L2/Sonnox etc...
I also realized thatthis is more clear with mixes that haveh fewer tracks or instruments...like ballads or anything with fewer racks..

Please can somebody explain that to me?

[Lagerfeldt]

Yes, there are various reasons.

The two main ones:

-RMS vs. Peak
-Punch, harmonics, distortion

Do a search on RMS.

[Bob Yordan]

Hiya

My guess is that the brain when exposed to very much information, filters away more than when it has time to process it. If there are gaps in the information, then it can make conclusions that it is loud.

When there is a stream of continues loudness, then there is no way it can make any conclusion about the loudness. It has to wait and compare it to the nextcoming mix.

Just me guessing.

[Edward_Vinatea]

Originally Posted by Fuel

Hi!
I realized and wonder the reasons why a Mix can sound and feels louder than others ?? when checking the Meters the one that sounds louder reads lower!!

That happens to me when I compare my Mixes.

I am talking about mixes with no limiting or maximizer ala L2/Sonnox etc...
I also realized thatthis is more clear with mixes that haveh fewer tracks or instruments...like ballads or anything with fewer racks..

Please can somebody explain that to me?

I am sure this topic has been covered before somewhere at GS - but here it goes: It's how our ears process sound. Most people know that our hearing detects middle range frequencies better than lower and higher range ones. Here is a chart. If a mix has a lot of bass content and another has a lot of middle range content - what sounds leveled to our ears may actually read quite different with your level meters. In addition, bass frequencies contain more density than middle range ones to produce an equal perceived volume level - that's the reason why - when playing bassy mixes - your level indicators look as being higher in level while mixes with more mid range frequencies {between 300Hz-2Khz} show a lower signal level - if you factor in a mix dynamics - where some sections maybe softer or louder than others - the task to sequence 2 songs at the same perceived volume level requires a skillful set of ears. I am sure the other ME's can explain all this with more technical terms for you.

Best wishes,

[zak7]

Originally Posted by Edward_Vinatea

I am sure this topic has been covered before somewhere at GS - but here it goes: It's how our ears process sound. Most people know that our hearing detects middle range frequencies better than lower and higher range ones. Here is a chart. If a mix has a lot of bass content and another has a lot of middle range content - what sounds leveled to our ears may actually read quite different with your level meters. In addition, bass frequencies contain more density than middle range ones to produce an equal perceived volume level - that's the reason why - when playing bassy mixes - your level indicators look as being higher in level while mixes with more mid range frequencies {between 300Hz-2Khz} show a lower signal level - if you factor in a mix dynamics - where some sections maybe softer or louder than others - the task to sequence 2 songs at the same perceived volume level requires a skillful set of ears. I am sure the other ME's can explain all this with more technical terms for you.

Best wishes,

Very Interesting!

So how gain stage contribute to this effect of perceiving more volume??
Also a mix that have lots of headroom ...or lets say is low in volume can get at the end the same impact, clarity and punch with any process ...like volume and limiting??

[Cellotron]

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt

Yes, there are various reasons.

The two main ones:

-RMS vs. Peak
-Punch, harmonics, distortion

Do a search on RMS.

Often even a bigger reason is frequency content. i.e. a 3kHz sine wav at 0dBVU will sound a heckuva lot louder than 50Hz sine wav at the same level reading! Which is why when given requests to make things "louder" often one of the first things an ME will do is to push mids and upper mids forward.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[arf]

Top mixers seem to be running vocals much more prominently which results in mixes reading louder. Other than great parts and great arrangements, I think one basic recipe for loud sounding mix is:

High vocal level.

Bass and bass-drum dynamically controlled and placed just hot enough to support the vocal.

Snare dynamically controlled and balanced to drive but not compete with the vocal.

Rest of arrangement featuring upper mid-rangey tones placed just inside the above elements.