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Loudness - is the end in sight? (& new weezer album content)
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jval
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#1
18th September 2008
Old 18th September 2008
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Loudness - is the end in sight? (& new weezer album content)

With the recent Metallica debacle and the seemingly increasing consumer awareness regarding the loudness wars, do you guys think we'll see a change anytime soon?
Obviously I'm not expecting a drastic drop in levels, but hopefully we'll start to hear more dynamics and less / no distortion & clipping. It just seems to me like the bubble is bound to burst sooner or later...

I also wanted to share something I found very surprising. A few weeks ago a band brought in the new Weezer record as a reference. I imported the first track and saw this.
I was obviously shocked at how quiet the track was, but I was also curious as to why it never gets anywhere above -2.5db. Seems like they could have just raised all of it up by a couple dB without sacrificing dynamics.
Thoughts?
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18th September 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jval View Post
Seems like they could have just raised all of it up by a couple dB without sacrificing dynamics.
Or they could have not limited it at -2.5 and let the natural dynamics go for another 2.3 dB (or whatever). Seems completely arse end up if you ask me
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19th September 2008
Old 19th September 2008
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But was that an original, store-bought copy, or something burned from god knows where?
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19th September 2008
Old 19th September 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huub View Post
But was that an original, store-bought copy, or something burned from god knows where?
Good point
jval
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19th September 2008
Old 19th September 2008
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Ah, true. It was definitely a leak. Still though... isn't it unlikely that someone ripped it, turned everything down, and then leaked it?
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19th September 2008
Old 19th September 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jval View Post
Ah, true. It was definitely a leak. Still though... isn't it unlikely that someone ripped it, turned everything down, and then leaked it?
Not really.
jval
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19th September 2008
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Okay, well anyways... how about the original question in the post?
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19th September 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterer View Post
Not really.
Yup - lots of ripping software can reset the output ceiling without making the end user aware that it's doing this -

i.e. I once provided a CD-R reference disc to a client and they complained that everything was peaking at -2.0dBFs or some such number - turns out that Mackie Tracktion which they were using for this was pulling the peak level down when converting to wav files because some option was set to a default which did this.

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19th September 2008
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I have a store bought copy of the record. I can't import it into PT, but just
listening in my car, the first thing I noticed was how much lower in level it is
than a lot of other new stuff (Paramore especially).
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19th September 2008
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"I can't upload the files into protools"

Is this because there is anti-piracy protection on the commercial discs???

In other words it cant be copied.
jval
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19th September 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marchhare View Post
I have a store bought copy of the record. I can't import it into PT, but just
listening in my car, the first thing I noticed was how much lower in level it is
than a lot of other new stuff (Paramore especially).
I never knew that some of those programs would lower the output ceilings. If you ever get one of these tracks imported, let us know if the commercial release is actually at that level.
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19th September 2008
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funny

How you just never know which part of the song they sampled. Was it the intro, verse? the solo or the bridge? Sometimes people make a moot point.




Quote:
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I never knew that some of those programs would lower the output ceilings. If you ever get one of these tracks imported, let us know if the commercial release is actually at that level.
jval
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19th September 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stereomixer View Post
How you just never know which part of the song they sampled. Was it the intro, verse? the solo or the bridge? Sometimes people make a moot point.
Sorry, not quite sure i know what you mean... that image i posted is the entire song (s).
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19th September 2008
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maybe..

Looks like Paramore might have a few more DB of headroom, gotta speak to Jensen.
They should have turned it up it might have sold more records!



Quote:
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Sorry, not quite sure i know what you mean... that image i posted is the entire song (s).
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19th September 2008
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I actually got burned with that issue when I was using a new laptop to make a disc. They actually have a normalize function in toast, which for some reason was turned on, so it was normalized to -5. It was just something for me to listen to in the car, but still, the burning programmes out there are full of funny features that can cock up the sound of the disc.
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19th September 2008
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I have a track that I copied from a Weezer album that my client brought in for reference and this particular track's highest peaks are -.2 dB below digital zero. I also know that my copying techniques are bit accurate so for this particular tracks, that is definitely what it is.

I would also agree that the album does not sound as loud of some others of this style but it's not b/c of the peaks being low.
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jval
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20th September 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stereomixer View Post
Looks like Paramore might have a few more DB of headroom, gotta speak to Jensen.
They should have turned it up it might have sold more records!


that's not what this thread is about at all...
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21st September 2008
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I hope you're right. However, I don't think we should be paying too much attention to waveforms and peak levels. It is not the same as loudness as I'm sure you know, though the two are linked ofcourse.

The most recent record I heard with extremely pure dynamics, but still enough loudness, is Mark Knopfler's Kill To Get Crimson. Give it a shot if you want to know how good it can be these days. +1 for Bob Ludwig
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12th December 2008
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The waveform posted for track 1 is wrong, it peaks right up to -0.2 as someone has already said. However track 3 on the album maxes out at -1.5 dB.This is just a natural product of the mastering, though - track 3 just wasn't pushed quite as hard as the other, or maybe came in a few dBs too loud, and was reduced a little to balance with the others.

Overall it sounds good, imo - the A-weighted RMS "center of gravity" is -14dBFS, which is very sane by today's standards, and near the top of where it should be, imnsho.

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13th December 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thesteve View Post
They actually have a normalize function in toast
Where can this normalize function be found? there is gain in toast 9 but i cant see normalize.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jval View Post
Ah, true. It was definitely a leak. Still though... isn't it unlikely that someone ripped it, turned everything down, and then leaked it?
Maybe the Leakerdfegad burnt MP3s to audio CD or: Ripped the CD into iTunes (which by default converts it to AAC) then burnt that to a CD - iTunes is rubbish in this respect (if all you want to do is clone a CD)
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13th December 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jval View Post


that's not what this thread is about at all...
Really? I thought it was about using bad information to come to incorrect conclusions.
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17th December 2008
Old 17th December 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Gold View Post
Really? I thought it was about using bad information to come to incorrect conclusions.
No, you fool, that's what the internet is all about!
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