Voxengo Elephant 3

[Aleksey Vaneev]

Thanks for your feedback!

Well, it really becomes hard to improve the sonic quality of a limiter further. In fact, it all turns into "multi-factor" question of taste. Exactly like choosing a mobile phone.

Seems like in the future I have to use user polling extensively, because while I can find a basically good limiter topology, its technical parameters can be modified vastly - and it is where user advice is required. If a basic preset does not sound good to many users, this will reduce chances they will choose the plug-in even if it has wide customization features.

[macc]

It's the customisation features that I love so much.

I would only say that the El-Dyn should always be off by default. It can be beneficial sometimes, but customers have actually commented on something. It turned out to be that El-Dyn temporal masking thing. Turn it off and no more moaning.

El-Dyn off, set release, transient time and transient shape, end of story. It's great.

[kjg]

Originally Posted by macc

I would only say that the El-Dyn should always be off by default.

Elephant 3 is indeed very nice and very good value. Thank you Aleksey!

I have to agree with macc though, El-Dyn should really be off by default.

regards,
Klaas-Jan

[Audio Enginerd]

I agree with the suggestion above as well. I love this plug!

[E-Irizarry]

Originally Posted by uncajesse

I second that... Elephant 3 is on top of a very steep hill for me right now, as far as publicly available DSP is concerned anyways. My #1 public fav.

The only other limiters I even bother to load are Crysonic SpectraPhy (my #2 public fav, great for a "vintage" sound while still retaining almost as much transients as Voxengo), and a very advanced non-public (yet) limiter/clipper (my #1 fav, totally sick).

You are going to laugh, guy, but I use Australian-based Crysonic SpectraPhy TWICE (in the processing chain) after I use Elephant 3.01.

I get that clear pristine sound detailed snappy sound that is so so hot! So I use three limiters when I am doing my pre-mastering phase.

People are stiiiiiiilllllll sleeping on Crysonic products.

Also, SpectraQ is so so so so sick, brother. People sleep on that VSt plugin comatosely, too.

[bmanic]

Originally Posted by macc

I was starting from there too but found that too smooshy. I dunno where I got smooshy from, but it is definitely the word

Seriously, try starting from the master punch but just turn off the dyn thing, it is on mode 3 in that preset. Transients just stick out how they should, rather than softened.

FWIW Customers were picking up on this, so I was really glad to get to the bottom of it.

That preset is my fault.. sorry about that. I don't know why I liked the dyn 3 thing as I totally hear what you are saying now. Aleksey tweaked my suggested settings a bit though, the original was:

EL Uni
Trans Classic
EL Dyn 3
CH. Linking 30%
Knee 0%
Trans Time 0.10
Trans Shape -1.0 (this was set to -0.50 by Aleksey)

Another setting that I've been liking lately is to use the AIGC-4 Mode. It is very important to tweak the "Trans Time" setting here, usually between 0.30 - 0.90, it is very dependent on how long the decays of your main drum elements in the mix are (or whatever main transient element in the track). Here is an example setup:

AIGC-4
Trans Sharp (sharp or asymmetric works best here)
CH. Linking (set to taste)
Trans Time (between 0.3 - 0.9, usually around 0.5-0.6)
Trans Shape 1.0 (also an important setting that varies depending on your material)

Finally, try turning OFF the extra Release element on the main page, this needs to be done in dense, punchy dance music. For calmer music like jazz, blues etc I usually turn up the Release time to around 4 or 5ms.

Cheers!
bManic

[bmanic]

Originally Posted by E-Irizarry

You are going to laugh, guy, but I use Australian-based Crysonic SpectraPhy TWICE (in the processing chain) after I use Elephant 3.01.

I get that clear pristine sound detailed snappy sound that is so so hot! So I use three limiters when I am doing my pre-mastering phase.

People are stiiiiiiilllllll sleeping on Crysonic products.

Also, SpectraQ is so so so so sick, brother. People sleep on that VSt plugin comatosely, too.

By the way, people are sleeping on Crysonic because it is a very, VERY dodgy company that doesn't keep any of it's promises. Not a single one.

Cheers!
bManic

[macc]

Originally Posted by bmanic

....
Another setting that I've been liking lately is to use the AIGC-4 Mode. It is very important to tweak the "Trans Time" setting here, usually between 0.30 - 0.90, it is very dependent on how long the decays of your main drum elements in the mix are (or whatever main transient element in the track).

Yeah man - with you there. Yesterday I had someone asking for AS LOUD AS POSSIBLE, and came across a nice combination of the AIGC 4 follwoed by an El Uni as I described before, sharing the load. I was surprised how good it sounded. It had no right to sound that un-crap at that sort of level, with that amount of bass.

Finally, try turning OFF the extra Release element on the main page, this needs to be done in dense, punchy dance music. For calmer music like jazz, blues etc I usually turn up the Release time to around 4 or 5ms.

I tried turning that off once but wasn't into it - I shall investimegate further forthwith, what what.

[bmanic]

Originally Posted by macc

I tried turning that off once but wasn't into it - I shall investimegate further forthwith, what what.

Oh btw, that was meant with the AIGC-4 settings. Release needs to be on in the EL-Uni mode, at least in my opinion. Otherwise it turns to crap.

Cheers!
bManic

[macc]

Ahhhh, right you are

Thanks!

[E-Irizarry]

Originally Posted by bmanic

By the way, people are sleeping on Crysonic because it is a very, VERY dodgy company that doesn't keep any of it's promises. Not a single one.

Cheers!
bManic

I didn´t know that. They never shitted on me, but that´s when I was purchasing their products back when nobody really knew them.

I´m sorry to hear what you posted, man.

[Aleksey Vaneev]

Sorry guys, but I have to softly disagree with you on EL Dyn modes. Without EL Dyn modes the limiter sounds "blocked" - it may offer a bit of more punch, but the sound becomes closed and a bit muddy. EL Dyn modes produce much more open sound, without muddy flavor which is generated when lower frequencies get squeezed.

If your audio system allows, you may adjust master output gain to +6 dB, listen to the track, then back it off to the original loudness, perform limiting with Elephant at +6 dB setting and compare the subjective feeling. EL Dyn modes preserve the "lightness" (dynamism) of the original sound better in my opinion.

[macc]

I can appreciate what you're saying Alexey - though obviously the music you're putting through the limiter makes a difference. And again, my customers were saying about it with no comment from me.

If there were a way to combine the punch of off with the openness, then we would have a winner. Could that be done Alexey?

(I know nothing about what the EL-Dyn actually does other than 'temporal masking', just thought I would ask)

[Aleksey Vaneev]

Originally Posted by macc

If there were a way to combine the punch of off with the openness, then we would have a winner. Could that be done Alexey?

I have to think about it.

However, the sound is really is about "fashion". To make a useful change I have to get far more opinions that I usually get on a couple of forums. As I've replied before, this is on the "todo" list for me - to find a way to collect user opinions in a useful way.