ME consultation before actual mastering session

[unit7]

I've been producing albums for 15 years. I don't often mix myself. Prefer to mix thru analogue console which I don't have....yet...

When I've done mixes myself I've always consulted an ME for some input in the final stages of the mixes (ITB). The last few years I've found this method even more convenient thanks to faster internet and that you can easily upload a mix at the server of the mastering studio. The ME can bring the mix up for a few minutes and then email me back with comments. Great, fast and flexible.

Q1: Most of you ME's do this a lot, right?

For me this in an obvious advantage for ITB mixing. One of the few

Now, in two weeks I'll get an analogue console to my studio. It's a Harrison Series 12 which has this awsome recall/automation on every parameter. But there will still be some outboard setup etc, that won't make it just as fast as a recall when mixing ITB, and I see this way of mixing a bit different, with a remix only as the last way out. Instead you do vocal up/down, instrumental, a capella mixes etc. Beacuse of that, and that I'd still want this ME input, I've started to think about the workflow in the future.

I think I'll contact the ME in mind for the current project a few weeks before the mix and see if we can arrange so that he/she can take a few minutes off to listen to my 90% ready mixes and get back to me with comments pretty quick, while I'm still having the mix up. I'd guess that I'd like this help on 3-4 songs so it wouldn't be that much, but it would still demand some planning/flexibility of the ME.

While thinking about this I got curious, so...
Q2: Are you used to offer services like this also?

Q3: Have any suggestions/solutions on how to do it?

[Masterer]

Most ME's really appreciate this kind of thing but most clients don't plan this far in advance.
You can use iChat too.

Good for you.

[joerod]

We offer "mastering with technical assistance" but, charge double our rates. We will work with you until the mix sounds right and is ready for mastering. If your mix needs no adjustments or meets a required criteria, you only pay a very small fee for that consultation.

If you ever need to test your mix with us, you submit it for a "free mastering demonstration". If your mix is not declined, your mix is in the ball park and you get a demo master. If we turn you down, we give you the reasons why.

[JTR]

do it all the time; provide mix feedback, send specific advice, including plugin screenshots where helpful, and will go to client studio to sit on a mix and make adjustments for them.
Included in regular rate; no extra charge.

[macc]

It benefits the end result every time in my (relatively short) experience...

It also makes the mastering job easier, but you don't have to tell them that bit

[unit7]

Originally Posted by macc

It benefits the end result every time in my (relatively short) experience...

Agree

Originally Posted by macc

It also makes the mastering job easier, but you don't have to tell them that bit

Well, you just move some work to prior to the actual mastering session. Not?

Thanks for the replies. Interesting. I mean this is clearly a case where the Internet has changed the way we work. Less distance between producer and ME compared to pre Internet IMO. Good thing.

[Bob Olhsson]

Any problem that can be fixed in the mix will generally sound better than attempting to fix the same thing in mastering.

That said, I always hang on to the earlier mix versions just in case.

[DSD_Mastering]

We do this all the time. I get paid by the hour, so the better the mix is, the less expensive the mastering.

If they use our mastering services, this consutation is free. Now... if I have to give the mixes to MY engineer, then they pay dearly!

Regards,
Bruce

[macc]

Originally Posted by unit7

Well, you just move some work to prior to the actual mastering session. Not?

Yeah, but it's just a pretty quick listen here. I send em gut instincts rather than focussed techo-speak. 'That Barry Manilow sample is pants, cut the midrange on that ring modulated duck fart', that kind of thing.

Mainly it's because I work two jobs and have to work my proverbials off when I am actually mastering, but also because many people simply aren't as technically conversant as I am (I know how that sounds, sorry). Sometimes being too specific with them leads to them overdoing it. Depends on the person though.

[Jerry Tubb]

We do a lot of this, an hour's listening session a week or two before mastering can do wonders for a project. DAW mixing usually makes recalls easy for them.

Recently had an attended consultation where the mixes had waaay too much low end, weak vocals, BBE "enhancer", and mega reverb.... probably a monitoring problem.

When we put it up on the Dunlavy's the mix problems were pretty obvious.

I mastered a couple of songs just to demonstrate what could be done with the mixes as they were, and made some suggestions.

So we got the engineer to pull the bass back a touch, ditch the BBE, bring up the vocal, and reduce the 'verb. It worked out nicely.

Discretion can be the better part of valor, not everyone wants you to critique their mixes, especially within earshot of the artist.

JT

[lucey]

Originally Posted by unit7

Q1: Most of you ME's do this a lot, right?
Q2: Are you used to offer services like this also?
Q3: Have any suggestions/solutions on how to do it?

Yes, Yes, not really. You seem to have it figured out. It's all about the way it works for you and the MEs schedule. As you said, with console mixes it's important to have quick feedback.

[unit7]

Thanks again for input!
Lucey, yes the console situation narrows the time window... I'll contact the ME when the console is installed and my first mix session approaches (November). I'm sure we'll work it out. Thanks again, all of you.

[Silvertone]

Yep, I put this into practice 14 years ago. Makes for better mixes and even better masters.

I've been know to sit for two or three hours even and show people different techniques they can try to better their mix.

In the end if the project comes out "that much better" than I don't consider it "time wasted". Clients appreciate this very much and they always come back.

It's a win win situation!

[Thomas W. Bethe]

Originally Posted by Silvertone

Yep, I put this into practice 14 years ago. Makes for better mixes and even better masters.

I've been know to sit for two or three hours even and show people different techniques they can try to better their mix.

In the end if the project comes out "that much better" than I don't consider it "time wasted". Clients appreciate this very much and they always come back.

It's a win win situation!

[24-96 Mastering]

Originally Posted by unit7

Q1: Most of you ME's do this a lot, right?

While thinking about this I got curious, so...
Q2: Are you used to offer services like this also?

Q3: Have any suggestions/solutions on how to do it?

Q1: Yes

Q2: Yes, we do. Even some pretty big name producers / engineers ask for feedback and send preliminary mixes before recalls, so that they can take the ME's suggestions into account.

Q3: Well, they upload a mix, you tell them what you think. If there are concerns, they make a revision and upload it. It's not an elegent system but it's simple and works, as long as those involved keep record of versions / changes. Mix feedback usually doesn't go on the clock, i.e. it's free as it's in both parties' best interest and normally doesn't take up much time. Otoh, if a project has a decent budget and the feedback becomes a significant part of the working process (both with regards to working time and improvements made), I may put a little bit extra on the bill.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by DSD_Mastering

We do this all the time. I get paid by the hour, so the better the mix is, the less expensive the mastering.

If they use our mastering services, this consutation is free. Now... if I have to give the mixes to MY engineer, then they pay dearly!

Regards,
Bruce

Seems to be happening more and more often...

[Assistant]

i do this all the time, mostly with my longtime clients.
it doesn´t take much time to listen and write back an email with suggestions how they can make their mixes even better.
for one of my latest projects, i suggested that i redo the mixdown from scratch after hearing the final mixdown for mastering.
their mix was ok but i thought there was much more potential in the song and i had a lil bit freetime so what the heck.
it came out much better and everybody was happy, now i got a job for mixing their new album in 2009

[peeder]

Originally Posted by joerod

We offer "mastering with technical assistance" but, charge double our rates.

Is this some sort of anti-loyalty program, or are your normal rates low because you just have a kid using ozone presets?

[joerod]

Originally Posted by peeder

Is this some sort of anti-loyalty program, or are your normal rates low because you just have a kid using ozone presets?

Not at all. We actually reward those who produce and submit good or great mixes by charging reasonable low rates. We get your order and master it, no questions asked (Otherwise, you can get a free mastering demo along with a review). But, and this a big BUT, if you are new to mixing and/or this is the first time you submit your music for mastering and your mix has many sonic/mix issues, we recommend you to upgrade your order to MTA (Mastering with Technical Assistance) and we will help you address all the mix issues until we deem your mix is good enough to master. Trust me , it's a lot of work. For all the time that it takes (all the back and forth revisions) charging only double the rate is still dirty cheap if you consider what the musician/engineer/producer client has learned for his/her future projects.

[peeder]

Originally Posted by joerod

Not at all. We actually reward those who produce and submit good or great mixes by charging reasonable low rates.

And those are the ones who don't need you.

[lucey]

Originally Posted by peeder

And those are the ones who don't need you.

That's such a false interpretation of mastering quality mixes.

[Bob Vosgien]

I just checked out 3 mixes for a producer/engineer yesterday...Took about 15 minutes of my time and he got some very useful feedback. I'll see him again when it's time to master the CD. I have always offered this service to my clients and it's so much easier and convenient now with FTP, idisk, ichat etc....

[nickynicknick]

here's what I think...usually with a console mix I like to mix a song for a day, get artist approval, print a mix or two.....leave it come back the next day, address any notes the artist had from listening at home and address any of my own issues with fresh ears for 2 hours.....if you worked in a similair fashion couldn't you upload your night mixes to your ME's sight and have him/her call you in the morning with their notes....I have done this (usually when it's an unfamiliar room) and it has been incredibly helpful.....they can give you insight into something you didn't even notice you were doing and/or affirm something you thought was going on but were second guessing....It doesn't take them that long to give a listen and assess things and this can save you a whole lotta grief at the end of the mixing stage...My guy is happy to be asked for his advice and I am happy to ask him.

Nick

PS I would probably only do this for fisrt song I mix as you should have a handle on it after that...maybe if you are mixing a single you might wanna check again.

[nickynicknick]

Originally Posted by joerod

Not at all. We actually reward those who produce and submit good or great mixes by charging reasonable low rates. We get your order and master it, no questions asked (Otherwise, you can get a free mastering demo along with a review). But, and this a big BUT, if you are new to mixing and/or this is the first time you submit your music for mastering and your mix has many sonic/mix issues, we recommend you to upgrade your order to MTA (Mastering with Technical Assistance) and we will help you address all the mix issues until we deem your mix is good enough to master. Trust me , it's a lot of work. For all the time that it takes (all the back and forth revisions) charging only double the rate is still dirty cheap if you consider what the musician/engineer/producer client has learned for his/her future projects.

Oh dear

[Alécio Costa]

I don´t charge for giving the client this kind of technical support once I am not the one who will be mousing the mixing session .

Sometimes I ask for a JPG of his control room just to have an idea of what might be deceiving his sweet spot: acoustics, topology and gear placement ...

MSN, Phone calls are ok if the client is far from you.

[unit7]

Originally Posted by nickynicknick

here's what I think...usually with a console mix I like to mix a song for a day, get artist approval, print a mix or two.....leave it come back the next day, address any notes the artist had from listening at home and address any of my own issues with fresh ears for 2 hours.....if you worked in a similair fashion couldn't you upload your night mixes to your ME's sight and have him/her call you in the morning with their notes....I have done this (usually when it's an unfamiliar room) and it has been incredibly helpful.....they can give you insight into something you didn't even notice you were doing and/or affirm something you thought was going on but were second guessing....It doesn't take them that long to give a listen and assess things and this can save you a whole lotta grief at the end of the mixing stage...My guy is happy to be asked for his advice and I am happy to ask him.

Nick

PS I would probably only do this for fisrt song I mix as you should have a handle on it after that...maybe if you are mixing a single you might wanna check again.

Thanks Nick! That's the way I prefer to do too, when I have the time. For jazz projects I mostly have to do all mixes in 2-3 days. Earlier, ITB, I did the mixes in two days. Waited for comments from artist and ME. Then had one day for adjustments. But with the console it will need more planning I think. But I'm sure it'll work out. I have some really nice ME contacts over here in Stockholm! If I tell the in time I think they will spare a few moments to listen to my mixes.