Death Magnetic

[TheArchitect]

Originally Posted by te-problematique

I think it's entirely reasonable that this album got market tested before being released and that this was the mix that passed. hell they probabaly made a bunchof different ones then focus grouped them. This is a major record with lots of dollars, the record company would want to mitigate as much risk as possible. Also there'd be no risk of it being leaked through those channels, they can afford lawyers remember.

You better pray thats not true. If it is you all better get day jobs because your audio careers are over. It takes no talent at all to produce crap like that

[Fleaman]

Originally Posted by te-problematique

I think it's entirely reasonable that this album got market tested before being released and that this was the mix that passed. hell they probabaly made a bunchof different ones then focus grouped them. .

And if they didn't normalize the levels....

[chk027]

Originally Posted by Fleaman

LOL.



I did like AJFA, but kinda moved on from the hard rock metal thingy long before most of my friends did. Even so, I liked Mega more. What sealed the deal for me was Nirvana.

(lol, that would be Megadeath....but spelled as the band the icon comes up!).

They had some great stuff when they started......I forget when metal died, I think it was the early 90's, it like disappeared and my whole audio collection became obsolete

I was like what the??? Grunge..... AIC is/was great stuff as well....


That picture of James above is absolutely the funniest hypocritical thing I have ever seen, fcking embarrassing!!!! And just for the record I never liked those fn posers! did I spell that right???

[te-problematique]

Oh not that I support that at all, it just wouldn't surprise me. They want an album which the fans will love, I imagine they'd run it past the fans who are used to radio/tv squash, our business sucks more by the day

[Dog Boots]

The mastering sounds like crap, yes - but so does the mix anyway IMHO. I mean, what's with the hi-gain guitar sounds!? - thin and wimpy...weak. And of course played with Kirk's horrible tone (the part of the tone that's in the playing, I mean)

As someone else suggested a few pages back - try listening back and forth between Death Magnetic and

Strapping Young Lad: Alien
Soilwork: Stabbing the Drama
Meshuggah: Obzen
...or something

It's embarrasing. Sure - neither of them are anywhere near as loud, but so what? Why not turn it down a bit - it's not like there's a valid counter argument or anything...

[ianshepherd]

Originally Posted by te-problematique

I imagine they'd run it past the fans who are used to radio/tv squash, our business sucks more by the day

The good news is that all of this is driven by the fans, and they all love the less compressed, dynamic "Guitar Hero" version. I'd post a link to a thread on their forums, but people keep discussing illegal downloads of the GH mix, and the mods delete the threads. BUt just keep an eye out here and you'll see that people love it.

Metallica Forum

Ian

[bcgood]

I just checked out the Metellica forum. Wow, this is interesting. The fans are definitely not happy with the sound of the mastered CD and are becoming aware of what limiting is. Because of the completely different sound in Guitar Hero the fans have a reference point which they didn't have in the past. Guitar Hero in this case is also hopefully future masters hero for helping to finally kill the loudness wars. Hey, a music fan cane hope can't he?

[ianshepherd]

We've made it to Wired, IGN and the Guardian:

Metallica album latest victim in 'loudness war'?

Metallica's Death Magnetic Sounds Better in Guitar Hero

Metallica Fans Hit Guitar Hero For Better Sound

It would be great if this at least gets regular music-buyers listening to CDs a little more critically, perhaps help turn the tide... (We can dream !)

Ian

[tazman]

This kind of reminds me of Springsteen's "Magic" album. I used to like his stuff, but after getting "Magic" I could barely listen to any song, especially "Radio Nowhere". All smashed and ear fatiguing. I went back and listened to some of his old stuff and what a difference. Same for Velvet Revolver, I tried to return the CD, but Best Buy said they would not take it back.

[Silver Sonya]

Originally Posted by tazman

This kind of reminds me of Springsteen's "Magic" album.

Agreed. "Magic" is simply unlistenable.

- c

[schnerg]

Originally Posted by memetto

(whatever that thing was, maybe the -shiterizer- )

Seeing that my levels were okay and no "shiterizer" was active , i shuffled the songs.

Slightly OT but if your shiterizer vintage tube or solid state?
I heard metallica only used solid state shiterizers to record this, could be why it sounds like this...

[Backhousepro]

For what it's worth, in my experience dealing with corporate types, when people who should "know better" do things that even the rankest amateur would see as a huge mistake before-the-fact, there's usually another agenda playing in the background. And that agenda usually has something to do with making more margin than retail alone allows. Perhaps this is a devilishly clever ruse to drive Guitar Hero sales in the light of a failing CD-distribution industry — and bring old-timers to a younger audience (and subsequently sales of older catalogs on iTunes). After all GH is on the upswing and CD is going down. Once could think of the under $9 dollar price as an easy enticement to buy what amounts to a demo — and if you want to hear the real thing, go buy Guitar Hero (I wonder who leaked that information). Considering the business savvy that Litigious Lars and Metallica have displayed over the years, I wouldn't be surprised — although I'm not sure that crediting them with this much Machiavellian intelligence might be giving far more credit than is due.

On the plus side, it is a remarkable phenomenon that fans are savvy enough about music production these days to be off-put by a bad example of it. Demanding their money back or asking for a remix, as many have, should send a very loud, highly compressed message to the remaining record labels — if any have ears left to hear it. I think this also lays a great foundation for those in a position to act on this information (such a people who know how to make good records) to capitalize on it and build a new music industry based on a very old business model: Find a need and fill it. Seems like the public isn't done listening to music and wants it to sound good. After all, tons of distortion pumping into your iPod earbuds can't be a good experience.

As far as laying blame is concerned, I would imagine that the edict to squash the record more than likely came from executives as opposed to people who actually know how to make records. After all, a band looking to make a comeback is at the mercy of those who think they know what will drive sales.

Perhaps the music distributors of the future will be people who made great records in the past — and won't allow tin-eared business majors fresh out school, who's sole qualification for being in A&R was listening to their daddy's record collection, to dictate policy when it comes to music production.

One way or another, I think this is a very positive sign for those who've wondered if there's still a market for good music.
-B-

[SMT]

Their masterplan is this:

Sell 10 million copies of this brickwall version. Then re-release Death Magnetic re-mastered/re-mixed 6 months later with a more pleasant sound = sell another 10 million copies....



Big business!!

[PoorGlory]

Originally Posted by SMT

Their masterplan is this:

Sell 10 million copies of this brickwall version. Then re-release Death Magnetic re-mastered/re-mixed 6 months later with a more pleasant sound = sell another 10 million copies....



Big business!!

If there is a conspiracy, this is most likely the truth.

But I think the real truth lies somewhere between Lars going "Make this album, like, totally, like, ****ing loud!" and Rick Rubin trying to be revolutionary.

I am a sucker and bought the album. And if they remaster it, I'll buy it again.

Anyone remember/heard of Nevermore's "Enemies of Reality"? The original mix by Kelly Gray was horrible (not crushed and distorted, just bad and muddy) on the original release, and fans complained so much that their label had Andy Sneap remix and re-master it. Then they just re-issued the new version of the album in stores and offered it through their website for $5 with no jewel case or booklet (for people who bought the original). I own both copies. I wanna say this was in 2003 on Century Media, but I can't remember. It just goes to show that this HAS happened before and was corrected. Although Metallica is a much bigger band on a bigger label. It takes a lot more to slow down an aircraft carrier than a small yacht.

[24-96 Mastering]

Originally Posted by PoorGlory

I am a sucker and bought the album. And if they remaster it, I'll buy it again.

If they re-release it within a reasonable amount of time, take the old one back to the store and say it sounds broken.

[James Meeker]

Originally Posted by chk027

That picture of James above is absolutely the funniest hypocritical thing I have ever seen, fcking embarrassing!!!!

Aw, c'mon, they're real people too. They shop like the rest of us. No need to bash on them for doing some shopping with the family and friends.

[introvert]

Originally Posted by ianshepherd

The good news is that all of this is driven by the fans, and they all love the less compressed, dynamic "Guitar Hero" version. I'd post a link to a thread on their forums, but people keep discussing illegal downloads of the GH mix, and the mods delete the threads. BUt just keep an eye out here and you'll see that people love it.

I did a bit of work on a Neversoft (the dev responsible for Guitar Hero) game a while back, and still keep in touch with their number one audio contract guy. Those guys are good at their jobs and know what they're doing. I'm not at all surprised that the GH mix is tremendously better. They wouldn't L2 the shit out of them, it's not their style.

[bcgood]

Originally Posted by James Meeker

Aw, c'mon, they're real people too. They shop like the rest of us. No need to bash on them for doing some shopping with the family and friends.

Aw shucks.

[Fleaman]

Originally Posted by introvert

I did a bit of work on a Neversoft (the dev responsible for Guitar Hero) game a while back, and still keep in touch with their number one audio contract guy. Those guys are good at their jobs and know what they're doing. I'm not at all surprised that the GH mix is tremendously better. They wouldn't L2 the shit out of them, it's not their style.

The interesting thing is that they got either a different mix/master or were able to mix/master it themselves.

Guess that's the sign of the times, a video game company gets the better production mix of a major label album release

[bcgood]

Originally Posted by Fleaman

The interesting thing is that they got either a different mix/master or were able to mix/master it themselves.

Guess that's the sign of the times, a video game company gets the better production mix of a major label album release

I think you might misunderstand the situation. They got stems not a stereo mix.

[Fleaman]

Originally Posted by bcgood

I think you might misunderstand the situation. They got stems not a stereo mix.

Ah. Which still begs the question, why were they given the choice? I guess to give them control with things like GTR solo levels....that would make sense.

What an unintended affect!

[soundsundergroun]

The mastering engineer didn't even spare us the intersample peaks.

The SSL ISM stays lit up the whole time.

[lozion]

Originally Posted by soundsundergroun

The mastering engineer didn't even spare us the intersample peaks.

The SSL ISM stays lit up the whole time.

................................

[Forgotso]

Best way to fight the loundness war? Quit buying the crap! Many posts in this thread saying "I picked up the CD today blah blah" Return it back to the f'n store. Duh?

Kudos to Ted for having the balls to say what he did, but still he is a big part of the problem. Don't want to be involved in this sonic disaster? Then don't do it, it's that easy. Instead he feeds the loudness war and takes the money and complains later about it. Where is the integrity in that?

Personally I'd rather lose a gig and stand up and tell these so called "800 lbs gorillas" of the industry that it's going to sound like utter crap, rather then to just sit there with my mouth shut and forever be tied to a project that sounds like this.

Integrity...

[Fleaman]

Originally Posted by Forgotso

Kudos to Ted for having the balls to say what he did, but still he is a big part of the problem. Don't want to be involved in this sonic disaster? Then don't do it, it's that easy. Instead he feeds the loudness war and takes the money and complains later about it. Where is the integrity in that?

Personally I'd rather lose a gig and stand up and tell these so called "800 lbs gorillas" of the industry that it's going to sound like utter crap, rather then to just sit there with my mouth shut and forever be tied to a project that sounds like this.

Integrity...

To paraphrase another saying, 'Integrity doesn't put food on the table."

Especially these days when everyone is fighting for a gig.

Not to mention it's the artists vision, not yours. Sometimes the artists are right (Beatles), sometimes wrong. Either way, it's your job to satisfy their vision....and hardly anyone is in the position to turn away good paying work.

[Masterer]

Originally Posted by Forgotso

Best way to fight the loundness war? Quit buying the crap! Many posts in this thread saying "I picked up the CD today blah blah" Return it back to the f'n store. Duh?

Kudos to Ted for having the balls to say what he did, but still he is a big part of the problem. Don't want to be involved in this sonic disaster? Then don't do it, it's that easy. Instead he feeds the loudness war and takes the money and complains later about it. Where is the integrity in that?

Personally I'd rather lose a gig and stand up and tell these so called "800 lbs gorillas" of the industry that it's going to sound like utter crap, rather then to just sit there with my mouth shut and forever be tied to a project that sounds like this.

Integrity...

Everyone is entitled to an opinion but it's very easy to criticize from the sidelines. Next time they call you for a gig I'm sure you'll do right thing.

[shmasterer]

Originally Posted by te-problematique

I think it's entirely reasonable that this album got market tested before being released and that this was the mix that passed. hell they probabaly made a bunchof different ones then focus grouped them. This is a major record with lots of dollars, the record company would want to mitigate as much risk as possible. Also there'd be no risk of it being leaked through those channels, they can afford lawyers remember.

FWIW, I worked at a Major Label for over 18 years in LA, and I never heard of this happening even once, but hey, they only woke me up for the important meetings.

shmasterer

[ianshepherd]

Fwiw there is a video on YouTube with a comparison of the CD and "Guitar Hero" versions, I've linked to it on my blog:

Metallica Death Magnetic video comparison - you decide

The differences are as plain as the nose on your face, even after YouTube has mangled it...

Ian

[FourDegrees]

Originally Posted by Dog Boots

As someone else suggested a few pages back - try listening back and forth between Death Magnetic and

Strapping Young Lad: Alien
Soilwork: Stabbing the Drama
Meshuggah: Obzen
...or something

Make sure to add "The Blackening" by Machine Head. One of the best mixed full-power metal albums of the last 10 years, IMO. Kicks some serious a** (soundwise) !

To add a small anekdote : Meshuggah wasn't completely satisfied with the guitar sound on their "Nothing" album, since they had to use poorly developed Eight-string guitar prototypes (believe they were Yamaha). Once they got a hold of some more decent ones, they re-recorded all guitar parts and re-released the album two years later as "Re-nothing". They added a DVD to compensate the cost of buying the album twice.

I bought the re-release...and found out I actually prefer the first one

[soundsundergroun]

Here is a theory:

Metallica and crew purposely put this distorted garbage on the market to educate the non-technical audience of the loudness war.

The next Metallica CD will be full of dynamics, it will have sonic superiority over all of all their albums. Everyone will note and the industry will follow.

One can only hope.