(G14) Getting close now...

[macc]

Hello all,

I suppose this is a 'talk me out of it if you can' thread...

I've been saving HARD for what I really need - a properly good outboard eq that will last me. I mean 'walking to save a pound from the bus, eating small lunches, working all day and all night getting 4 hours sleep a night' hard. I have my heart set on a G14 - the design philosophy really appeals to me, as well as the sound in the demos.

I'm almost there now, and so I was hoping to double check things before I put my gran on ebay for the last chunk of cash.

1) - to those who have one; is there any good reason I should choose something other than the G14? Shelves I can live without - G14's 5 parametric bands + the shelves in my 747 should cover most bases I think (plus plugs of course). Stereo operation with one set of controls is a huge boon for me too. I can probably hold off and save more, but for the price the G14 seems to have a real advantage. If money were no object I'd probably go for the Maselec based on what I have heard, but it's double the price, and the G14 does sound GOOD to me.

Any thoughts and justifications would be much appreciated. Assuming people don't manage to convince me otherwise;

2) - for small fry like me, can anyone recommend the cheapest way to obtain it? There is a phone number in the recent resolution review, but the bloke is away on holiday at the moment. Any recommendations for keeping the cost down would be good. I don't want to sell my other gran too (though I would!).

3) Leading on from that - anyone know of someone selling one second hand?

There are of course other things I need, but I have worked very hard to save up enough cash for this and it will be the biggest thing I've bought (apart from my house!). After this, saving a few hundred for other things should be a doddle. So please just keep replies to eq if that's okay - that's what I feel I need most, no question.

Thanks!

[joerod]

Assuming that you have great monitors and a good digital workstation with decent plugins, I would hold off buying this or any other eq or compressor.

If you don't have these, then I would spend the money on those 2 items first.

Otherwise, I would keep my money so that in case of an emergency I am covered, and I would only buy the super expensive eq with the net profits of my mastering service.

[macc]

Thanks for reading my post so carefully Joe.

[inlinenl]

Come on Macc, you deserve it .... now go and get it ... I don't know how to get it cheap ... I always buy to expensive :-(

After that you should really try a tubetech SMC-2B ... I'm having my love thing with it again ...

cheers Wim

[Lagerfeldt]

Originally Posted by macc

1) - to those who have one; is there any good reason I should choose something other than the G14? Shelves I can live without - G14's 5 parametric bands + the shelves in my 747 should cover most bases I think (plus plugs of course). Stereo operation with one set of controls is a huge boon for me too. I can probably hold off and save more, but for the price the G14 seems to have a real advantage. If money were no object I'd probably go for the Maselec based on what I have heard, but it's double the price, and the G14 does sound GOOD to me.

The Maselec isn't near the G14 in my opinion. The Maselec is a bit "hard" to me, especially in the mids. Did you have the Maselec on trial?

2) - for small fry like me, can anyone recommend the cheapest way to obtain it? There is a phone number in the recent resolution review, but the bloke is away on holiday at the moment. Any recommendations for keeping the cost down would be good. I don't want to sell my other gran too (though I would!).

You really need to speak to Jakob at Gyraf using the email on the website, he should be available. I don't know about a small discount but there's no harm in asking, especially if you're about to sell your last granny.

Again, I simply cannot recommend the G14 enough. It's by far the best EQ of its type in my opinion, and puts a smile on my face each time I use it.

If you're coming from using mostly or only plug-in EQs you will be amazed how much width and depth you get from it. I strongly dislike boosting with a digital EQ (cutting is great in many cases though) but boosting with the G14 is like pouring melted chocolate and marshmellows in my ear canals.

The only thing I regret about my purchase is that I didn't do it sooner.

[macc]

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt

The Maselec isn't near the G14 in my opinion. The Maselec is a bit "hard" to me, especially in the mids. Did you have the Maselec on trial?

HAHAHA - Good one mate. You do know I’m holding up the very bottom end of the mastering market right?

No sadly, my opinions are based only only the (more numerous than I expected) sound clips found trawling the net like a loser.

You really need to speak to Jakob at Gyraf using the email on the website, he should be available. I don't know about a small discount but there's no harm in asking, especially if you're about to sell your last granny.

Indeed, sorry to see the old dear go to be honest, we’ve had some good times. She’ll understand though. Maybe we can trade and Jakob can put her to work soldering or something.

Seriously though, I thought it might be a bit rude to mail Jakob with an ‘I’m the lowest of the low, please make it cheap’ approach. I don’t mind working hard and saving up, and the man is running a business. However I wouldn’t mind cutting out the (numerous?) middlemen all taking their cut to keep my costs down.

Again, I simply cannot recommend the G14 enough. It's by far the best EQ of its type in my opinion, and puts a smile on my face each time I use it.

If you're coming from using mostly or only plug-in EQs you will be amazed how much width and depth you get from it. I strongly dislike boosting with a digital EQ (cutting is great in many cases though) but boosting with the G14 is like pouring melted chocolate and marshmellows in my ear canals.

Now THAT is what I am after I do really love the sound of the 747 eq in combination with the plugs I have – and it’s a more flexible arrangement than I imagined it could be. But I am becoming increasingly aware of the sonic limitations, and irritated at doing too much push-pull action when something needs working in the wrong area. Much better would simply be to have an eq where I can do it well in one step.

The only thing I regret about my purchase is that I didn't do it sooner.

Which sort of answers this thread. I have other issues to address, but largely they’re a long way in the future. Some good (IMHO) advice on this forum was about getting the thing that would improve your work the most at the moment, then reassessing. I’ve done alright so far considering my situation, but I do need a good HW eq. So I thought I’d run it by you lot before saving the last of the money.

Thanks for the advice

[joerod]

Originally Posted by macc

Thanks for reading my post so carefully Joe.

Hey Macc, If I said something wrong, I am sorry.

[Lagerfeldt]

Originally Posted by macc

Seriously though, I thought it might be a bit rude to mail Jakob with an ‘I’m the lowest of the low, please make it cheap’ approach. I don’t mind working hard and saving up, and the man is running a business. However I wouldn’t mind cutting out the (numerous?) middlemen all taking their cut to keep my costs down.

Yeah, I understand what you're saying. He's selling directly though so no middle men in this case.

Send me a PM before you buy, as I live in Denmark and I can look at different options for you perhaps. Just trying to help out a fellow ME.

Cheers,

Holger

[macc]

That's extremely kind of you, and I'll be sure to do that.

I'm Lincoln City to your Manchester United, as it were, so it's greatly appreciated.

[Bob Yordan]

Hello Macc

[macc]

Haha... I am nearly there Bob, nearly there!

[macc]

Originally Posted by inlinenl

After that you should really try a tubetech SMC-2B ... I'm having my love thing with it again ...

Ok genius, so now what?

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/gears...-smc2b-eu.html

I need an eq but that's pretty feckin cheap...

(semijoking)

[livingstone]

Originally Posted by macc

Hello all,
I've been saving HARD for what I really need - a properly good outboard eq that will last me.

the G14 sounds well for sure
but note that technicaly it's not very well built, it's a bit DIY style, and the component used are quite cheap pots & swithes won't have a long life.
but i didn't kept mine long enough to have a problem.
one thing i didn't liked was the stepped output gain, it was impossible to have it at 0db to set the same gain in and out.

the waow factor is evident with this eq, there's that feel that it enlarge the stereo image,
it's great on poor material but on well balanced ones it mess the image too much in my sense.
i prefered to it the EAR 825Q but it's not the same price range and very few comes second hand, not much than g14...

[macc]

Originally Posted by livingstone

it's not very well built, it's a bit DIY style, and the component used are quite cheap pots & swithes won't have a long life.

Hmm... Can you define that? 2 years? 5 years? I am sure Gyratec would look after you in the event something went wrong though, surely?

Lagerfeldt..? Any thoughts here?

one thing i didn't liked was that the stepped output gain, it was impossible to have it at 0db to set the same gain in and out.

Ok - I don't think that will bother me too much, but I suppose we'll see. Lagerfeldt..?

the waow factor is evident with this eq, there's that feel that it enlarge the stereo image, it's great on poor material but on well balanced ones it mess the image too much in my sense.

I'll bear that in mind thanks!

[Lagerfeldt]

Originally Posted by livingstone

it's a bit DIY style, and the component used are quite cheap pots & swithes won't have a long life. but i didn't kept mine long enough to have a problem.

Yeah, it's hand built - not in a factory. I kind of like that actually.

I don't know about "cheap switches", they seem just fine to me. Never had a problem personally, and neither did you it seems. ;-)

Gyraf offers excellent service, beyond that of most other companies. I don't know how it works with foreign customers but I'm certain they will fix any such problems free of charge.

one thing i didn't liked was the stepped output gain, it was impossible to have it at 0db to set the same gain in and out.

Mine is set fine, no problem there. I'm able to get within a few fractions of a dB.

Remember to let the unit heat up a good 20 minutes (even more if possible). You won't get 100% stable levels until it has heated up well, although I'm not saying that was what caused your situation. This also reduces the microphonics in the tubes when dialling the switches.

the waow factor is evident with this eq, there's that feel that it enlarge the stereo image,
it's great on poor material but on well balanced ones it mess the image too much in my sense.

I guess that's a bit subjective. It certainly does have that wow factor and great stereo image, but I find it quite neutral when the individual bands are not engaged due to the passive/parallel design, and since you actually have to manually activate a band before it'll do anything. This was an important factor for me during mastering and it has lived up to my expectations in that regard too.

The transformers will always color the sound a bit even when the EQ isn't doing anything, but that's the way it is and not necessarily bad, quite the contrary I think.

[macc]

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt

Yeah, it's hand built - not in a factory. I kind of like that actually.

Here too - it's a bit of a selling point to me. Like I said, the design philosophy appeals to me, but also this

My Dad's a jeweller/watchmaker, and I was always amazed at the skill of people who put those old watches together. Then the Japanese movements came in and all the magic went :(

Aaaaanyway

I saw Mr Gyraf poking his head in here, so hopefully he'll start building one in anticipation *cough cough*

[livingstone]

First i don't say the g14 is a bad one, it's an incredible piece for this amount of money

but

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt

Yeah, it's hand built - not in a factory. I kind of like that actually.

a lot of high end pieces are hand built for the only reason that their designers don't sell that much so it's cheaper for them to built them theyselves than to launch a factory process.

into the handbuilt units, i can tell you that this one is not really rigourisly bult,
the psu xformer is not shielded, and the tubes on the pcb are on the closest side of this xformer,
the case is really a cheap one too, this kind of assembling vibrate on certain kind of frequencies (100 to 150hz) (it happened to me with this particular unit)
just for exemple

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt

I don't know about "cheap switches", they seem just fine to me. Never had a problem personally, and neither did you it seems. ;-)

Gyraf offers excellent service, beyond that of most other companies. I don't know how it works with foreign customers but I'm certain they will fix any such problems free of charge.

i am sure of this, Jacob is great

but this kind of pots are really cheap ones and will have to be changed, 2years or 5 i don't know, it depends on the way it is used and cared.
we're far away of the built quality of neumann, NTP or telefunken... danner modules for exemple, some of mlnes have more than 40 years and still work great!!
(and they were handbuilt too)

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt

Mine is set fine, no problem there. I'm able to get within a few fractions of a dB.

Remember to let the unit heat up a good 20 minutes (even more if possible). You won't get 100% stable levels until it has heated up well, although I'm not saying that was what caused your situation. This also reduces the microphonics in the tubes when dialling the switches.

the problem with this kind of steppped attenuator is that the zero is between two steps because of the low tolerance of this component,
it would have been great that Jacob added a calibration possibility for this

on mine the step bellow 0 was -0,6 and the upper one +0,4db
yours seems a bit the same isn't it ?

personnaly i like that when i switch a unit in, it don't change the volume to really listen what it change into the sound,
and this +0,4 is evidently a part into the appreciation of this wow factor

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt

I guess that's a bit subjective. It certainly does have that wow factor and great stereo image, but I find it quite neutral when the individual bands are not engaged due to the passive/parallel design, and since you actually have to manually activate a band before it'll do anything. This was an important factor for me during mastering and it has lived up to my expectations in that regard too.

well when i say it changes the stereo image it's even all band out just when you pass thru the gain stage, and this kind of consideration is not that subjective,
when you process a very well done stereo take, passing it thru the g14,
the image seems larger but become a bit blur and you loose the detail into the instrument placement, even more with field recordings !!
it's not subjective,
in a well balanced accoustic environment this effect is obvious

but as i said on mixes with a poor stereo image or also electronic based music it's very flatering and add an extra lush

[Lagerfeldt]

Originally Posted by livingstone

the problem with this kind of steppped attenuator is that the zero is between two steps because of the low tolerance of this component,
it would have been great that Jacob added a calibration possibility for this

on mine the step bellow 0 was -0,6 and the upper one +0,4db
yours seems a bit the same isn't it ?

Yup, I think there's a 0.2 dB difference or so on mine.

I don't believe the pots will need to be changed in 2 to 5 years, I never changed a pot on the G10 or any other Gyraf machine (yet).

I think your points are very true otherwise, it's just not an issue for me, even though I'm fairly anal retentive. As you say it's an incredible piece of equipment and offers a very lush sound, which especially suits a lot of electronic music or purely digital mixes.

Nice room by the way! Did you get your NTP's from DR?

[macc]

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt

a very lush sound, which especially suits a lot of electronic music or purely digital mixes.

That covers 99% of the material I get.

Jakob... best start building thumbsup

[macc]

Just in case anyone is interested...

I made the call today

2 weeks!

[yareck]

Originally Posted by macc

Just in case anyone is interested...

I made the call today

2 weeks!

2 weeks is very good !

A friend of mine has waited few months :-/

Mine has serial number #5, one of first units built.

I've bought it second hand, only one thing I've replaced is a pair of tubes.

Pots are very good, never had a problem with it.

It makes wonders with poor material, with better stuff I'm trying to avoid tweaking on mids.

The highs 12 kHz and above and the lows 50-200 Hz are always good, better than any other eq I've heard (of course sometimes this 16 kHz shine on GML is needed alternatively)

Cuts are very good especially in low and low-mid range.

I've sold Maselec but keeped the Gyraf. They are a little bit simmilar in sound and character - ok maybe it's too much said Although the Maselec is more like a real mastering thing, the Gyraf is more open sounding and clean, you can feel it even when you're tweaking on bass. The sound is more important to me.

Originally Posted by inlinenl

After that you should really try a tubetech SMC-2B ... I'm having my love thing with it again ...

Me to. I hear more things in my new room

[Fat larry]

Originally Posted by macc

Just in case anyone is interested...

I made the call today

2 weeks!

Well done
Please tell us your thoughts on this eq once it lands.
Fat Larry

[macc]

Thanks for those great thoughts Yareck! I think it is 2 weeks as the supplier has one out on demo, when it comes back from demo it will be turning straight around and coming this way :D

And I'll probably not talk about anything else Larry, haha

[les_paul]

Hi

Just received mine yesterday. What can I say... I could not stop turning those knobs... Ended up playing around with it for several hours. Seemed like I could turn those freq. buddies anywhere... it sounded fantastic no matter where I turned the knobs. I ended up with the impression that it's a matter of taste, rater than finding the right spots. Rough and dirty... smooth and silky, your choice... Sexy as hell.

B.t.w... My chain goes like this these days;
First... Dangerous Music S & M, Manley Massive Passive, Manley VariMU, API 5500, API 2500, G-14 ending up with Manley SLAM (Mastering Version).

Take care all of you...

Morten
Epilogue Production ANS
Epilogue Concept

[macc]

I don't mean to be rude, but....

SHUT UP YOU B@5T@RD



Still at least another week for me :(

[les_paul]

Macc....

You will NOT be disappointed... the waiting is all worthwhile. I waited for 7 weeks.

I believe the serial # is 136 on mine... guess yours will be between 137 - 140, so... not many of them around.

Best of luck!

Morten
Epilogue Production ANS
Epilogue Concept

[macc]

I SAID SHADDAP

[Bob Yordan]

Hello Macc.

[macc]

I just got caught rubbing my face on the screen

Apologies for my 'kid waiting for Xmas' behaviour. But if you can't get excited about new gear, what's there to get excited about?

[les_paul]

You got one 2... The G-14?

B.t.w... received a second CL1 mk2 last week together with a DMP mk2... Vintage Design are so cool... real NEVE old school stuff...

Stay tuned


Morten
Epilogue Production ANS
Epilogue Concept