Where is Professional Mastering going?

[Thomas W. Bethe]

Today more and more artists are deciding to do there own mastering or forgo professional mastering altogether. Is this this the wave of the future?

I get more and more calls to do cheap and dirty mastering for rates that don't even allow me to turn the lights on. People who want mastering done for next to nothing and get upset that you will not master 14 songs for $200. The first thing they tell you is what they are willing to pay and most don't even bother to ask what your going rates are.

I am not sure what is happening to the whole mastering profession but it seems that we maybe in the same downward spiral that hit the professional recording studios a couple of years ago. More and more people are offering mastering and less and less people are getting their material professional mastered.

Any thoughts?

[Robert Randolph]

There are more hobbyists now who want your services. If you can't bring it to find a way to service them, then consider yourself throwing business out the window for no good reason.

While the lines blur between hobbyist and professional, a gap widens as well. There are more professionals who are using 'pro-sumer' equipment and doing it in a bedroom, but at the same time the gap between the 'industry' and the new breed of professionals grows.

People must learn that what they want is not what their customers want. The customer may not always be right, but the customer is always paying.


times change, adapt or die. stike

and endlessly bitching about it isn't 'adapting' (not pointing at anyone in particular)

[philip]

Why not, it's the business own fault. A lot (even most...) of masters sound bad and why would you pay for a bad master?

Everyone can use a cracked Waves L2, and because the result is similar to some pro mastering... you get my point.

[Darius van H]

Professional mastering is alive and well.

The client i'm working with today just told me about 2 budget mastering horror stories.

Sometimes i think that I'm actually being paid for what i don't do!

[Robert Randolph]

I also want to comment on this 'not even worth turning the lights on' phrase...

Would you rather:

a. do something you love for $5 an hour after overhead?

or

b. do absolutely jack shit and be another week closer to, or in debt?


It seems to me that a lot of people who are complaining about the cheapening of services are the one's turning down work that in turn gets passed to... guess who? The hobby-engineers who will gladly take anything they can!

Now you've not earned ANY money, your service is still cheapened by the acceptance of the work, and an 'unworthy competitor' has taken a potential customer from you for a job you could have done twice as good, in 1/4 the time for essentially the same price.

Then months later, the person who was turning down work is closing their business because they say they didn't have enough customers!

If someone wants to pay to $200 to do 14 songs then do your rate's worth of work on those 14 songs. Most mastering engineers I know can easily do 10 songs in an hour significantly better than any hobbyest or amateur can in an entire day of work. Charge $200 for your two hours of work, and they charge $200 for their day of work. If you can't compete in terms of quality, price and availability in the long run then you're going out of business. That's it. That's how it works.


Mastering engineers in general these days need to get over the idea that everyone wants a perfect master. Most people just want it to sound better and almost nothing more. Treat your customers at their level. A butcher wouldn't last long only offering the filet mignon to working single mom's who only want some meat that's not rotten.

[Bob Yordan]

Hiya

I think it is called competition.

Reaching out to new clients is probably the key (meanwhile).

If/when 'the smashing days' are over, hopefully quality we be the
aim/focus again.

[pelliott]

The OP is ironic because of how many times people have come on here and said they were better than "Unnamed Big Shot Engineer" and then a firestorm ensues. Eventually the "discussion would end up with one side saying what Thomas mentions in the OP and the other side (ME's) replying that they are not nervous and business is just fine.

On topic though - Yes, more and more people are taking a crack at it themselves and more and more they are discovering that it didn't save their project. I am busier than ever. Might need to bring on another engineer soon to handle everything.

We offer a chance for artists/engineers to send their tracks in for us to listen to and get feedback. More and more mixes are sent in already mastered. Then I have to give them the bad news (disortion, bad mix etc --- some are good though). Some people take it to heart and try to fix and have us master it. Some ask if it's "close enough". (I know) ...

My guess is that it'll continue to trend that way as more and more manufacturers put out newer and better plugs at cheaper prices. I think people believe in themselves and think all they need are the right tools. And manufacturers know this and build for that mentality.

I think the Pro ME's hardest sell is "Trust me, I know how to do this better than you."

[sanddigger1]

I'm working mostly on budget projects for hobbyists, beginners and so on. At my level, the competition most of the time doesnt come from kids with cracked L2 but from recording/mixing engineers that offer mastering in the same room and with the same gear that the one they used for mixing.
The last project mastered this way I've heard was not bad, but not as good as what I've could have done.
This band wouldnt have been impressed by a kid with a L2, but they were by a reputable mixing engineer with a big console who wasnt cheaper than me.

[Masterer]

Same place professional mixing is going.

[smoke]

There are LOTS of guys like me (hobbyists) who stumbled into digital music. Probably more than ever, since it's very accessible now.

I think Professional Mastering WILL will go thru a "renaissance", as the amatuers get better, but hit that so-called 'wall' where we realize that we simply cannot achieve a pro sound in the bedroom or project studio. Not everyone is going to "get it". Not everyone will feel that their work is worth sending to an ME. People are going to try to do it on their own. Some will succeed.

Then you have the other lot, of which most will give up entirely. What's left are the MEs new potential customers. It's going to take some time, and there are plenty of underachieved mixes to make before the 'realization' happens.

But I do believe there will be an upcoming crop of non-traditional musicians who will need a different brand of Mastering. I think MEs will have to make themselves more accessible to us, work with us, compromise with us.

I would not underestimate the amount of people who are getting involved in music "accidentally". Believe it or not, some of these guys are very good without a classical background. Those MEs that accept, respect and support this should have no problem retaining, and even possibly handing down the reigns of their business to their children.

Music isn't the only area where transition and change is happening in the world. We all have to "go with the flow".

(yeah I know....)

[narcoman]

mastering is for professional product. If you're not releasing professional product - go ahead - use the cracked Waves L2 (tut !!) . Waste of time in the money making arena as you'll find out as soon as you badly home mastered CD is played on radio or in a club.

Mastering by talented professionals still rules. I NEVER do my own mastering.

[Jerry Tubb]

Originally Posted by narcoman

Mastering by talented professionals still rules. I NEVER do my own mastering.

My vote for Post of the Year !

Most of our regular clients are AEs that could master their own mixes, but prefer to bring it to us instead.

Best - JT

[ianshepherd]

Originally Posted by SigmaDeltaAudio

Most mastering engineers I know can easily do 10 songs in an hour significantly better than any hobbyest or amateur can in an entire day of work.

Regardless of the rate, no-one can do a decent job mastering 10 tracks in an hour unless they're just ramming it through a preset. It takes an hour just to listen to an album flat ! What are we supposed to do, look into the future to see what the album sounds like and choose the settings before we've heard it ? Hm, maybe I should see if I can design a plugin to do that...

Ian

[jordanstoner]

...no-one can do a decent job mastering 10 tracks in an hour unless they're just ramming it through a preset.

I'm sure this is what a lot of the $5.00 / song guys do. Izotope Ozone, Hip-Hop Mastering preset #1, print.

Not saying that they all do this or that the price tag makes anyone more or less legit than others... but this is certainly going on by those who have the plug-ins but not the interest in the music. However, this practice will either make clients realize that they need pro mastering, or provide cheap mastering for those who wouldn't ordinarily pay for it in the first place.

One thing to consider is just how much the business has exploded in the last 10-15 years - anyone and everyone can have a home studio now and make a semi-decent recording. The output of the consumer-level didn't even exist 20 years ago. Now it's just ballooned into a market all its own, and while there may be some overlap in clientele, the pro mastering industry is not seeing much impact because of this. I think it hurts the mid-pro level guys most, especially since that market has seen the opposite amount of growth - there are more ME's in that arena than ever before, so there is much more competition.

[Robert Randolph]

Originally Posted by ianshepherd

Regardless of the rate, no-one can do a decent job mastering 10 tracks in an hour unless they're just ramming it through a preset. It takes an hour just to listen to an album flat ! What are we supposed to do, look into the future to see what the album sounds like and choose the settings before we've heard it ? Hm, maybe I should see if I can design a plugin to do that...

Ian

The point is that a professional ME with excellent skills will do a significantly better job in this situation than an amateur, and that in all likelihood the client will be better off with the professional. He may even get a chance to educate them and help them get a better product in the end.

If you just laugh at them, there goes your chance at any $ from that client, and the chance for a word of mouth or a repeat client.

[joerod]

I haven't met yet a single artist/band or producer who after spending some serious dollars in creating excellent album mixes, decided to have it mastered by some online service for only $100 or $200.

The quality of the client's work is 9 out of 10 times, a reflection of their professional knowledge. I want the serious cats businesses and therefore, I encourage them to let us make them free mastering demos. This approach works for my service. I'd rather be making free demos and get no sale results at all than to drop my price to cheapen the quality of the service.

[ianshepherd]

Originally Posted by SigmaDeltaAudio

The point is that a professional ME with excellent skills will do a significantly better job in this situation than an amateur.

Sure, and I agree - I know for a fact I can get better results in six hours than some people can achieve with months of trial and error.

But an hour is only enough to properly master two, maybe three tracks at most.

Ian

[joerod]

Originally Posted by ianshepherd

But an hour is only enough to properly master two, maybe three tracks at most.

Ian

Providing that we are talking about decent mixes, I concur with this statement...thumbsup

[joeaudio]

Originally Posted by joerod

I haven't met yet a single artist/band or producer who after spending some serious dollars in creating excellent album mixes, decided to have it mastered by some online service for only $100 or $200.

The quality of the client's work is 9 out of 10 times, a reflection of their professional knowledge. I want the serious cats businesses and therefore, I encourage them to let us make them free mastering demos. This approach works for my service. I'd rather be making free demos and get no sale results at all than to drop my price to cheapen the quality of the service.

Aren't you some online service?

[Robert Randolph]

Originally Posted by ianshepherd

Sure, and I agree - I know for a fact I can get better results in six hours than some people can achieve with months of trial and error.

But an hour is only enough to properly master two, maybe three tracks at most.

Ian

The point I made in my previous post is that not everyone needs (or even wants) 'proper' mastering.

You need to give the client what they want and not try to charge them more for something they don't want and/or will not be able to appreciate, otherwise you're just a glorified 'used car salesman'.

[joeaudio]

Do they want improper mastering?

BTW "Glorified Tape Copy Boys"

not used car salesmen.

[joerod]

Originally Posted by joeaudio

Aren't you some online service?

I am happy that thru GearSlutz.com you've come to hear of one of the best online mastering services on the web. If you are a musician, please by all means, try the service free...

[joeaudio]

Thanks for the offer Joerod.

Free? Wow.

I am a musician. Drummer. Mastering is my sideline.
Can you give a quick explanation of the pros and cons of the
most commonly used dither algorithms?

[joerod]

Originally Posted by joeaudio

I am a musician. Drummer. Mastering is my sideline.
Can you give a quick explanation of the pros and cons of the
most commonly used dither algorithms?

I think you are veering way out of topic here, Joe. And, I just realized that I am breaking rules by pluging in my business. (Sorry guys)...

[joeaudio]

Sorry to go off topic. But what the heck Joerud
I'm very concerned about dither. I heard that the wrong dither can
really mess up my sound.
Does your service include dither?
Free dithering?
I need free dithering Joerod. Please explain which type you use and why.

[joerod]

Originally Posted by joeaudio

Sorry to go off topic. But what the heck Joerude, I mean rod.
I'm very concerned about dither. I heard that the wrong dither can
really mess up my sound.
Does your service include dither?
Free dithering?
I need free dithering Joerod. Please explain which type you use and why.

Let me tell you something about dither: it's overrated. But, you mix? Then don't dither. We will dither it and noise shape it with what we will. But even if we master something without dithering you probably won't notice the difference. If you make good mixes then maybe you can hear the difference good mastering makes. Otherwise, there is no point in making off topic comments (And, it's against the rules too).

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe

Today more and more artists are deciding to do there own mastering or forgo professional mastering altogether. Is this this the wave of the future?

I think its for 3 reasons;

1) At the very top end of the scale unless your mixes are really there they aren't coming back any different and this dissapoints non major label clients that are paying $375-$450 an hour for the attended rate and $200-$250 for a non attended one. When you don't attend its almost impossible to speak with the ME directly and you have to go through the "cock blocking" booking manager who is passing the messages back and forth because he/she is very busy and is working on your project on their off times.

2) In the middle of the road its hard finding an ME that really understands the Urban, dance or the harder rock genres and doesn't get upset when you ask for so many revisions or you express to them that they don't really "get it" and just because your an ME it doesn't mean you will get everything. Also why do they feel they have to smooth things out & take out the irritating nature so much since this is part of the music and has to come across to the listening audience? I know it sounds like grating sh*t on $10,000 speakers but unfortunately its the sound that the audience is used to.

Luckily when you do find someone who is really good, friendly and affordable all of a sudden a month later you get an email that they are changing the rates to almost double and now you can't book through them directly, you have to do it through the new "cock blocking" booking manager that will handle all of the communication.

3) And at the bottomn there is everyone and their cousin who feels like they can do it and take 24 hours to master one song and it still doesn't sound right.

All of these things combined have contributed to the disallusionment of the whole mastering experience which the average joe never understood anyway. You don't know who trust anymore & who really is any good or not. Everyone has a fancy website and a discography full of projects that have nothing to do with the music at hand. I mean if your discog is mostly country acts and i am doing black metal why should i trust that you will get it? Or if its mostly classical and jazz and i am doing rap, are you going to feel comfortable when i pull up with a bunch of dudes to the Mastering session that have nothing to really do with the project but all have opinions?

[DSD_Mastering]

I'm busy as hell. Never in my life did I think I would be so busy where I would have to quit my day job.
"IF" I have some free time AND "IF" an artist is sincere AND "IF" they CAN PLAY WELL.. of course I'll do some tracks for $200-300. But, I'm not going to waste my time trying to fix some home-brewed mastering job. On a good day... with a good mix, I can do 4 tracks/hr. That's mastering only... no codes.. no burning... no nothing.. just a straight file sent to upload to iTunes/Myspace or whatever.
I have 2 projects to get out by tomorrow... Gotta go.. I'm on lunch break!!!

Regards,
Bruce

[joeaudio]

Originally Posted by joerod

Let me tell you something about dither: it's overrated. But, you mix? Then don't dither. We will dither it and noise shape it with what we will. But even if we master something without dithering you probably won't notice the difference. If you make good mixes then maybe you can hear the difference good mastering makes. Otherwise, there is no point in making off topic comments (And, it's against the rules too).

Aye yai yai. Are you really this thick?
Am I expecting you to be New York quick?
Keep up the good work Joe Rod.
You are an asset to the mastering community and to this web board.

[joerod]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

...if your discog is mostly country acts and i am doing black metal why should i trust that you will get it? Or if its mostly classical and jazz and i am doing rap, are you going to feel comfortable when i pull up with a bunch of dudes to the Mastering session that have nothing to really do with the project but all have opinions?

It may come to you as a surprise but I know a few guys that can master *great* anything you throw at them. They also communicate well through emails...