HIGH END MASTERING GEAR, WHAT TO BUY?

[Tetness]

I'm looking to add a top notch mastering chain for my studio. I have examined the countless threads but...maybe you can help me further...

I need a mastering EQ and Compressor. I already own a Mercury M66. I could get another one and use that for the Fairchild thing. Or, Cranesong, Maselec, GML, Requisite, Pendulum, etc... I also own a Mercury EQP-1, I could get another as well and go that route. LOVE the Mercury stuff, but is it the ultimate way to go for mastering, which I am a novice at. Also, I don't want gear that's overly complicated to operate. I like simple.

Also, I don't have to have perfectly transparent. I don't mind givng the mix a little personality.

Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

[84K]

This topic is screaming "LUCEY." Well Brian, go ahead...

[deft_bonz]

At the moment I use a Massive Passive, ES-8 and a Finalizer. The Finalizer will be replaced by L3 or something similar and a further high end compressor (probably the STC-8).

My chain will look like this as soon the hedd comes:

DA: Hedd w tape/tube emulation
-
EQ: Massive Passive
-
Comp: ES-8
-
AD: Hedd
-
Finalizer, slightly compression here again plus limiting



Don't forget to get the right converters, but above all of them are: Acoustics AND loudspeakers !!! otherwise you won't be able to work with your high end tools.

[Darius van H]

Budget?

[Brad Blackwood]

Get your room and monitors in place, then you'll be ready for gear...

[Tetness]

My budget is 12,000 or around there. I would rather spend less. I am currently using an Apogee Rosetta 800 96k, should I sell it and buy a Hedd and use that for all my conversion?

[nlc201]

sonic solutions

[deft_bonz]

Originally Posted by Tetness

My budget is 12,000 or around there. I would rather spend less. I am currently using an Apogee Rosetta 800 96k, should I sell it and buy a Hedd and use that for all my conversion?

put all that money into room and monitors, then use good software to start the first jobs.

[NathanEldred]

My outboard mastering chain consists of Lavry Blue A/D/A, Crane Song Trakkers, Chandler TG-1, Millennia NSEQ-2, Crane Song Ibis. A solid room and speakers is a given.

[Tetness]

My speakers are S3As. My room is as good as it's going to be right now. Which is not great. But I will be building one soon. Meanwhile, I don't love the sound of mastering plug-ins and I was hoping to find some outboard gear that would help my mixes.

It seems many like Cranesong. Hedd, compressor, EQ.

[Revelation]

Cranesong makes great stuff, but regarding the Ibis, I can't and don't want to turn knobs that use a freq of the key of C or F. I like an Eq that has freq. numbers on it. It is what I have been doing for 15 years, and I don't want to change. Especially when every other company uses freq numbers instead of letters. Too weird for me. I know what freq. numbers to go to for acoustic guitars, bass, vocals, etc. Not sure why Cranesong did this but it has kept me away.

[Teacher]

Originally Posted by Revelation

Cranesong makes great stuff, but regarding the Ibis, I can't and don't want to turn knobs that use a freq of the key of C or F. I like an Eq that has freq. numbers on it. It is what I have been doing for 15 years, and I don't want to change. Especially when every other company uses freq numbers instead of letters. Too weird for me. I know what freq. numbers to go to for acoustic guitars, bass, vocals, etc. Not sure why Cranesong did this but it has kept me away.

I never used cranesong gear but I think the idea behind that was to keep the engineer in a more "Musical/artistic" mode rather then a methodical mode.

[Gravity8058]

You might consider a Maselec De esser as well.

[lucey]

Originally Posted by Tetness

I'm looking to add a top notch mastering chain for my studio. I have examined the countless threads but...maybe you can help me further...

I need a mastering EQ and Compressor. I already own a Mercury M66. I could get another one and use that for the Fairchild thing. Or, Cranesong, Maselec, GML, Requisite, Pendulum, etc... I also own a Mercury EQP-1, I could get another as well and go that route. LOVE the Mercury stuff, but is it the ultimate way to go for mastering, which I am a novice at. Also, I don't want gear that's overly complicated to operate. I like simple.

Also, I don't have to have perfectly transparent. I don't mind givng the mix a little personality.

Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

There are many threads for Eqs and Compressors over on the R/E/P and if you Search you'll find far more info than any new post will bring you. A Lavry Blue AD/DA or a HEDD may be in order too.

It's not a matter of one or two pieces to do great mastering so get ready to go over budget a little. I'd say $15-$20,000 will do you better.

IMO, the S3A monitors (which I used to own) have got to go. Right now. Or you won't be "high end". The ported low end is not sufficient to clearly hear the crucial low mids and low end necessary for mastering. And the ribbon tweeter, although awesome for mixing, is too unlike 99% of playback systems to be a mastering tool you'd choose. The dispersion is also too narrow. This is great for mixing as it kills the room and REALLY shows the panning, yet for mastering it's not giving you enough off the walls and enough size unless you are far away in a bigger room.

So I highly recommend you look at other monitors ... if you need floor standing, there are many options and BBs R/E/P Mastering Forum is a good place to ask questions.

If you need stand-mounted monitors (or even if you don't) the Barefoot Audio Mini Main 12s are the best thing on a stand, and for me, the best monitor I've heard yet. I auditioned B+W, Dunlavy, Wilson and Thiel (plus others I've forgotten), sometimes $20,000+ systems, and I'd not trade even for any of them against the Barefoots.

Barefoot also has a lower priced 8" Micro Main which, if it holds true to his high standards, will smoke the competition in it's price range. Thomas really knows what he's doing and tweaks every pair by hand from beginning to end. He is slow, but it's worth it.

As far as compression and eq, after you spend $7000 or $10,000 on Barefoots be sure and audition some things. I can't tell you where to start, but again, search here and on the R/E/P Mastering Forum, as this question comes up all the time and there are great, in depth responses all around.











And if you really dont want to audition ... and if you really want to be told, "buy this!"

at least:
Barefoot MM12s
HEDD 192 AD/DA
Lavry AD/DA
STC-8
NSEQ or IBIS or some eq you like

[Tetness]

_________
Originally posted by Lucey

IMO, the S3A monitors (which I used to own) have got to go. Right now. Or you won't be "high end". The ported low end is not sufficient to clearly hear the crucial low mids and low end necessary for mastering. And the ribbon tweeter, although awesome for mixing, is too unlike 99% of playback systems to be a mastering tool you'd choose. The dispersion is also too narrow. This is great for mixing as it kills the room and REALLY shows the panning, yet for mastering it's not giving you enough off the walls and enough size unless you are far away in a bigger room.

And if you really dont want to audition ... and if you really want to be told, "buy this!"

at least:
Barefoot MM12s
HEDD 192 AD/DA
Lavry AD/DA
STC-8
NSEQ or IBIS or some eq you like[/QUOTE]

_________

Thanks! For all your information. Here's he deal, I'm mainly doing mixing and tracking. Do you still reccomend me selling my s3a and getting barefoot? I simply want the mastering gear so I don't have to send out my music to get mastered all the time, only when it really counts, because I will never be a true mastering pro. Also, you mention Hedd 192 and Lavry. What about Prism? And why do I need two AD-DA converters?
Thanks.

[norman_nomad]

http://gyraf.dk/g10/index.html this looks cool!

[Revelation]

Originally Posted by Teacher

I never used cranesong gear but I think the idea behind that was to keep the engineer in a more "Musical/artistic" mode rather then a methodical mode.

That's what I heard too, but I still don't like it, at all!

[Darius van H]

I'm not too keen on the Ibis note names either, but that would never stop me using this quality bit of kit.......anyway, i find the less i look, the more i hear!

[Revelation]

I hear what you are saying, but there are so many good EQ's out there now. For me, the Manley Massive Passive, GML, and Avalon are really up there. Though I love the Manley, I would also want the Avalon or GML (both cleaner sounding) for mastering just to have the option of both flavors.

Interesting enough the MD3 has been released for the Powercore which gives you the same exact mastering algorithms as their 6000. It does not include all of the things on the 6000, but it has the same 4 band EQ, multi compressor and limiter. It just received an in depth review at Sound on Sound in the April issue.
If I did not have the Waves Mastering which I happen to love for clean sparkle polishing, I would think about the MD3.

[lucey]

Originally Posted by Tetness

Thanks! For all your information. Here's he deal, I'm mainly doing mixing and tracking. Do you still reccomend me selling my s3a and getting barefoot? I simply want the mastering gear so I don't have to send out my music to get mastered all the time, only when it really counts, because I will never be a true mastering pro. Also, you mention Hedd 192 and Lavry. What about Prism? And why do I need two AD-DA converters?
Thanks.

Is $750 a job too much to spend? How about $550?

All self-interest aside, I don't get spending on $12,000 on mastering outboard that does not include monitors and room ... send us some work brother! The monitors and room are the main gear.


As for AD DA ... you need DA to send analog to the chain, then AD to reconvert, then DA to hear it and A/B with the original DA. I use DAC1 -> Analog Chain -> Pacific Microsonics HDCD AD -> HEDD digi only -> Pacific DA

good luck

[Riccardo]

Sorry but I really don't get it.
If you are prepared to spend anything between 2 to 5 grand (british pounds) on converters you should then be looking at spending at least 3 times as much - if not more - for your monitors.
How are you going to hear what a + or - 1 dB makes on an Ibis or a GML to your mixes?
I am still shocked at people shooting out mike preamps and microphones costing several thousands and listening to the differences on low end monitors.
What's wrong with the Barefoot?
Are you afraid of producing much better mixes?
With gear as the one mentioned and I think you mentioned Mercury Eqs and comps....man.....your speakers should be at least in the 5 to 8 grand range (that's 10 to 16 in Dollars).

Re: Ibis. I don't even look.....I listen and yes Lucey's suggestion are spot on.
If you want more choice for compressors (but you already have 2 M66!)
The new Buzz is coming out plus the new Fearn, 2 Trakkers, Pendulum ES-8 and OCL-2, the superclean GML, Requisite....Jazzius has a Phoenix..that could be a nice colour option.....Gyraf...and on and on..........
Eqs you can also look at Fearn, Fairman, Forsell and requisite if and when they come out (I think there's a Thermionic in the pipeline as well).


Ah....don't forget a pair of ears (just joking!)
Best of luck.

[Albert]

Originally Posted by Tetness

Thanks! For all your information. Here's he deal, I'm mainly doing mixing and tracking. Do you still reccomend me selling my s3a and getting barefoot? I simply want the mastering gear so I don't have to send out my music to get mastered all the time, only when it really counts, because I will never be a true mastering pro. Also, you mention Hedd 192 and Lavry. What about Prism? And why do I need two AD-DA converters?
Thanks.

Some of these gear suggestions seem really over the top for what you are talking about doing. For the "mini-mastering" you are talking about you need basically three items: a superb AD/DA converter, and a very clean and smooth compressor/limiter and a high quality eq. Suggestions of the CraneSong STC-8, Millenia NSEQ-2 and Lavry or Prism converters seem right on the money to me. Then hardwire them together with high quality short cable runs.

Other great options have been discussed like the GML, Manley MP, Pendulum ES-8, and other wonderful gear. The ultimate choice depends on your taste and what you want the final product to sound like. But for the in-house quicky mastering you are talking about I don't see why you need multiple units of the same type.

[Tetness]

I'm going to check out the barefoot monitors.

[The MPCist]

Originally Posted by Revelation

Cranesong makes great stuff, but regarding the Ibis, I can't and don't want to turn knobs that use a freq of the key of C or F. I like an Eq that has freq. numbers on it. It is what I have been doing for 15 years, and I don't want to change. Especially when every other company uses freq numbers instead of letters. Too weird for me. I know what freq. numbers to go to for acoustic guitars, bass, vocals, etc. Not sure why Cranesong did this but it has kept me away.

Me too. I use the STC-8 and HEDD192... I would like to get the IBIS but would like one that has the 'normal' silkscreening instead of musical terms.

If Cranesong makes one, I'm buying.

[StuartMac]

The Ibis HAS frequency numbers labelled around the controls! Honestly, it's really easy to use!

The note names thing is such a non-issue, I can't believe it should stop anybody using one of the finest equalisers available. I hardly ever look at the thing anyway, but there ARE frequency numbers on the unit to keep you right if you really feel you need them.

[Revelation]

Originally Posted by StuartMac

The Ibis HAS frequency numbers labelled around the controls! Honestly, it's really easy to use!

The note names thing is such a non-issue, I can't believe it should stop anybody using one of the finest equalisers available. I hardly ever look at the thing anyway, but there ARE frequency numbers on the unit to keep you right if you really feel you need them.

The thing is try to get someone to loan you a Ibis so you can really try it out. I have heard Manley, GML and Avalon for years, and know what to expect from all of them. You really can't pick a bad eq at this quality level so it just to personal preference and conveinance. I know I can call up Fletcher and he can send me an Ibis and Massive Passive, and can return the one I don't want. However there is so many things that make up your sound and depending on what your mic's and pre's are for starters, will help determine what would be best for your studio.

In my case, I don't have any tube mic's or tube pre's. So if I was going to get a high end EQ, I know I would pick the Massive Passive hands down. However if I had a Pendlum or Voxbox and already have colored the sound up front, I prehaps would go for a Avalon or GML. For now with my limited budget I use Waves Ren plug ins, the UAD LA 2a and Fairchild plug ins for color. Mind you they do a very good job in my studio. Bear in mind I have a project studio in my basement. So at this point, it is not warranted to spend thousands of dollars to for an eq and to deal with D/A, A/D back into my DAW.

[Tetness]

Originally Posted by The MPCist

Me too. I use the STC-8 and HEDD192... I would like to get the IBIS but would like one that has the 'normal' silkscreening instead of musical terms.

If Cranesong makes one, I'm buying.

How would you compare the HEDD 192 to the Apogee Rosetta for both mixing and mastering applications. Sorry, If I have gotten a little off track with that quesiton.

[gsharp]

Tetness, I just pm'd you.

g

[matucha]

One thing I really can't understand is when someone doesn't want EQ with different markings than in Hz. I almost always close my eyes when dialing (plugin) EQs not to be influenced... and now this.

S3A... can't consider that speaker as lowend. Do you think that S3A + Sub can work for mastering? Once one has them, you can only sell them with loss... but adding sub isn't that bad financialy. I know I know... tricky to place it (if possible) correctly etc etc. But there are MEs using subs... for ex mr. Blackwood (802+sub). Ahh... and yes there is still that ribbon and narrow dispersion ;\

[lucey]

The note markings are no big deal ... and the reason he did it was noble, so you have to give him props for that. "I wanted to encourage engineers to think in the language of musicians." I appreciate Dave's genius, so I don't mind the note markers even if I never use them.

In fact, the only time it matters in in Log writing, othere than that ... why are we reading when we should be listening???


The ADAMs are great for mixing, for some people ... yet as far as adding a sub, bad idea in his room. Any sub needs a great room, and only then can it possibly work out.