De-esser plugins
24-96 Mastering
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#1
29th July 2008
Old 29th July 2008
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De-esser plugins

I wonder: Is there any REALLY good de-esser plugin out there that rivals what a Weiss or analog Maselec can do?
#2
29th July 2008
Old 29th July 2008
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Not familiar with the units that made reference. You should probably check out the new Massey De-Esser. All of this guys plug-ins are top-notch, and really affordable. No expiration on the demo version either.

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Cellotron
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30th July 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 24-96 Mastering View Post
I wonder: Is there any REALLY good de-esser plugin out there that rivals what a Weiss or analog Maselec can do?
One of the better ones I've tried (i.e. it works better to my ear than Wave's various offerings) ironically is free - "Spitfish" - digitalfishphones.com - free audio effects plugins

As far as analog hardware goes - I got to say that Empirical Labs "DerrEsser" is excellent and definitely worth considering as a cheaper and more flexible alternative to the Maselec - Empirical Labs DerrEsser 500-Series De-Essing Limiter

Best regards,
Steve Berson)
macc
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30th July 2008
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UAD Precision de-esser is great

Not as good as the Weiss though (based on an hour or two with the Weiss)!
24-96 Mastering
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30th July 2008
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Thanks for your suggestions so far!

Quote:
Originally Posted by KFMG View Post
Not familiar with the units that made reference. You should probably check out the new Massey De-Esser. All of this guys plug-ins are top-notch, and really affordable. No expiration on the demo version either.

High-end plug-ins for Pro Tools
Sorry, not a pro tools user, so unfortunately, I can't try them out. Plus, on a sarcastic side note, I have limited faith in plugins developed by someone who calls on the audio world to "stop bothering with dither" because it's "esotheric". Sorry for that... I couldn't resist. I'm sure the plugins are excellent. I just don't work with Pro Tools here.

Quote:
Steve Berson:

One of the better ones I've tried (i.e. it works better to my ear than Wave's various offerings) ironically is free - "Spitfish" - digitalfishphones.com - free audio effects plugins

As far as analog hardware goes - I got to say that Empirical Labs "DerrEsser" is excellent and definitely worth considering as a cheaper and more flexible alternative to the Maselec - Empirical Labs DerrEsser 500-Series De-Essing Limiter
Thanks for the suggestion, I'll try the plugin. It does have a sensing control besides a filter cutoff, that looks promising.

As for the Empirical labs:
I haven't heard it. Wasn't even aware they did one. Tbh though, if possible at good quality, I prefer to have my corrective processes in the box for flexibility. So if there's any plugin that works well, I'd give that the go ahead, rather than a hardware box.

Quote:
macc:
UAD Precision de-esser is great
I guess I'm really gonna have to try the UAD one of these days. Would you say that the precision de-esser is considerably better than the Waves De-Esser & Waves RDe-esser (shouldn't be that hard, I hope)?
Whitecat
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30th July 2008
Old 30th July 2008
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Likin' this one too. A bit fiddly to get into (ie, not the instant gratification of the Massey) but works really well once, well, fiddled.

Eiosis E²Deesser
macc
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30th July 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 24-96 Mastering View Post
I guess I'm really gonna have to try the UAD one of these days. Would you say that the precision de-esser is considerably better than the Waves De-Esser & Waves RDe-esser (shouldn't be that hard, I hope)?
I would.

I'm saying that based on only three or four mixes I comapred them on - I didn't bother with the Waves after that. I get a lot of dnb with ringy, scratchy old funk breaks high-eq'd to breaking point. The UAD does a much more transparent job taming the high end and still keeping it dynamic (in split mode). Used it just yesterday actually, worked a treat.

I still feel it isn't The Ultimate, I won't lie - I'd like full control of attack/release times and so on, but then there is the precision multiband for that I suppose. But for no-frills quick deessing the fixed fast/slow (one or the other) times work well on most things.

I suppose I'd say it is 'good' if not incredible. But I don't have the money for a Weiss!
MASSIVE Master
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30th July 2008
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Another vote for SpitFish. Pretty amazing...
ed littman
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30th July 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MASSIVE Master View Post
Another vote for SpitFish. Pretty amazing...
Often I use the spitfish in conjunction with the maselec...ha what an oxymoron

Ed
joeaudio
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30th July 2008
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Love spitfish.
Used Weiss DS-1 .
Used the Deess/Limiter module in the BW102
Used Maselec MPL-2.
Used Waves Deesser.
Even used DBX 902
Love spitfish.
Don't forget to click on stereo.

Joe
jdg
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30th July 2008
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spitfish!
i just used it to now to tame some finger noise.
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30th July 2008
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Spitfish works fine on full mixes as well as on individual tracks. Transparent, effective, easy to use.
24-96 Mastering
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31st July 2008
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Thanks for all the suggestions.

I have just tried out Spitfish and so far am very impressed. It's a LOT better than the Waves de-essers. I'll try other suggestions as well but wanted to say thanks for pointing it out. Also, The author of the plugin should be praised for developing a very good plugin - and making it available for free. How very very nice!
#14
31st July 2008
Old 31st July 2008
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Hi,

i think best and best most configurable plug for deessing is the Powercore Dynamic EQ. The Samplitude internal Deesser is also not bad.

You can build your own Deesser with the plug "Sidekick"

But the best is my dynamic-controlled Algorithmix Orange.
#15
1st August 2008
Old 1st August 2008
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E²DeEsser - this is one of the best DeEsser plugins. Spend the time to learn how to use it. You'll find it very effective.

Lou
LMaudio

Quote:
Originally Posted by terminal3 View Post
Likin' this one too. A bit fiddly to get into (ie, not the instant gratification of the Massey) but works really well once, well, fiddled.

Eiosis E²Deesser
#16
2nd August 2008
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Powercore Dynamic EQ just saved me on the hip hop album I was mastering. love it!
#17
5th August 2008
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Hmm, I must be missing the obvious I guess, but spitfish doesn't seem to do anything at all for me. I've tried every possible way of setting it, but it just doesn't kick in. I have attached a small piece of a vox track that I used to test. At the end there is a very prominent "ssss". (Mind you, none of the plugins I have tested sofar have worked on this vocal, I have to fix it all by hand).

If anybody knows how to fix it without resorting to manual editing, please let me know ;-)
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File Type: wav vox.wav (290.4 KB, 1298 views)
24-96 Mastering
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5th August 2008
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That s is seriously quiet. May I ask why would you want to de-ess it? Or is it more about the sound of the s, rather than its level?

Looking at the analyzer, I doubt that any de-esser is going to get the s, seeing the vocal line before it has pretty much the same level around 7-10kHz.

The only thing I can think of that would work in that snippet you posted would be a single band expander, setting the threshold just above the level of the s. But whether that would work for the rest of the track, I don't know.
#19
5th August 2008
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Hi,

It's so quiet because this is how I received the recorded tracks. I usually tend to (try) and de-ess everything before processing, and believe me, once the vocal is compressed and sent to a reverb, that little "sss" is VERY loud and VERY annoying.

I've been thinking of doubling the vocal track, filter it, and only sent that to the reverb, but I would prefer not tbh...

What I've done sofar with one track is setting an EQ to around 10k, and then just ride the gain of that eq as needed to take out the harshness of the "SSSSS" and "TTTT" (as can be seen in the screenshot). The only problem is it's such a tedious process, it took me about an hour just for 1.15 minutes :(

Alas retracking the vocal is not an option...

Ps: Robin, I did not mean to hijack your thread
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De-esser plugins-ssss1.gif  
24-96 Mastering
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5th August 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by datune View Post
Ps: Robin, I did not mean to hijack your thread
No worries at all

BTW. I thought of a solution to your problem:

- Prepare 2 mono audio files. 1 with the original, unprocessed vocals. 1 with the compressed vocals.
- Insert both files into your EDL/Arrange window on mono tracks. Pan the unprocessed vocals hard left and the processed ones hard right. Make sure both tracks are aligned perfectly.
- Now insert spitfish on the master bus (make sure you hit the "stereo" button in spitfish). It'll now sense the esses easily.
- Insert any plugin capable of levelling post the spitfish plugin, muting the right channel.
- Insert any plugin capable of mono-summing post the spitfish and the right-channel-mute-plugin.
- Render the file. You now have the de-essed, otherwise unprocessed vocals in a stereo file.

Procedure may vary, according to specific DAW used.

I tested this here on your snippet and this somewhat improvised side-chaining worked nicely.
#21
5th August 2008
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Oh! Wow! What an excellent idea, and why didn't I think of it!

I will try this first thing tommorow, I just turned off everything, and was about to go catch some sleep.

Oh boy, if this works out, you have saved me a couple of days of work. I'll let you know;-)

Thanks a lot Robin!
#22
5th August 2008
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Alright, so I couldn't resist!

It works perfectly!

What I did was REALLY crank up the right channel, and voila, perfect control!

Thank you very much for this valuable information, you really made my day Robin!
24-96 Mastering
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5th August 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by datune View Post

Thank you very much for this valuable information, you really made my day Robin!
No worries. I'm glad to hear it's working as well as you hoped.
#24
6th August 2008
Old 6th August 2008
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Does Spitfish work on Intel macs, too? Looks like the mac versions are still PPC only.

There is a new deesser/dynamic EQ from Sonnox/Sony Oxford that's well worth a try.

Toby
joeaudio
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#25
6th August 2008
Old 6th August 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 24-96 Mastering View Post
No worries at all

BTW. I thought of a solution to your problem:

- Prepare 2 mono audio files. 1 with the original, unprocessed vocals. 1 with the compressed vocals.
- Insert both files into your EDL/Arrange window on mono tracks. Pan the unprocessed vocals hard left and the processed ones hard right. Make sure both tracks are aligned perfectly.
- Now insert spitfish on the master bus (make sure you hit the "stereo" button in spitfish). It'll now sense the esses easily.
- Insert any plugin capable of levelling post the spitfish plugin, muting the right channel.
- Insert any plugin capable of mono-summing post the spitfish and the right-channel-mute-plugin.
- Render the file. You now have the de-essed, otherwise unprocessed vocals in a stereo file.

Procedure may vary, according to specific DAW used.

I tested this here on your snippet and this somewhat improvised side-chaining worked nicely.

You are a genius.

Joe
24-96 Mastering
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#26
7th August 2008
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Hmmm... I've come across a problem when using spitfish.

On some tracks (low level, not much high content), spitfish will produce low level clicks or pops when running in real time. Did anyone else come across this?

I have a hunch this may have to do with denormalization or other internal plugin issues since the problem persists even if the plugin is in Wavelab's bypass (but "switched on"). The problem only goes away when I turn the plugin completely off. I may be completely wrong. Any ideas?
#27
7th August 2008
Old 7th August 2008
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He wrote a normaliser plugin. Also from memory the spitfish is a denormalising plug.
#28
12th August 2008
Old 12th August 2008
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uad de-esser is not doing it

Interesting thread...I'm working on a female voiceover project right now with a highly sibillant speaker. I just found myself totally unsatisfied with the Waves De-Essers so I got the UAD Precision De-Esser. I have many UAD plugs and love all of them, but the De-Esser just did not do what I need it to do. A real dissapointment. I was thinking of trying to get my money back. Granted it's better than the Waves De-Essers (especially the Renaissance - I can't believe they ever released that one as a real product), but still, it's just not killing it. Plus, it has the annoying habit of freezing the computer with a certain regularity (at least in Sonar).

So now I'm trolling for a new, better De-Esser. I'm going to give the spitfish a try and I also grabbed the demo bundle from Wave Arts and we'll see how that goes.

I'm curious, anyone have great success with the UAD De-Esser on a high-s female voice? If so, what settings?

-Jaguar
#29
12th August 2008
Old 12th August 2008
  #29
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I find it more natural to just edit out the occassional sibilance by notching out the sibilant portion on the automation amplitude curve of the vocal track. That way you have ultimate control and can manually correct with great precision.

If someone is hypersibilant throughout a track I would probably just experiment with myvarious de-essor plugins and use the one that sounded best on that particular track. If it sounded that flawed I would even try to re-record it if possible.
#30
10th September 2008
Old 10th September 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by df1587 View Post
I find it more natural to just edit out the occassional sibilance by notching out the sibilant portion on the automation amplitude curve of the vocal track. That way you have ultimate control and can manually correct with great precision.
That's what we wanted to achieve with the E²Deesser : controlling the sibilants like if it was gated, or like if you can control the volume separately.

We will release some updates of the E²Deesser, so feel free to post here some ideas for the E²Deesser !


Fabrice,
Eiosis
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