Mastering procedure

[gilwe]

Hi all,

I currently dump from Cubase via my Fireface into a Revox PR99 (1/4") but when I go back to Soundforge and then export 44/16 I get all that degradation in sound.

Should I idially burn CDs directly from the tape (i.e Revox -> CD burner) ?

I'd love to get some links or source for links about the different methods of translating DAW tracks into the finals CD.

Thanks !

[Riccardo]

Originally Posted by gilwe

Hi all,

I currently dump from Cubase via my Fireface into a Revox PR99 (1/4") but when I go back to Soundforge and then export 44/16 I get all that degradation in sound.

Should I idially burn CDs directly from the tape (i.e Revox -> CD burner) ?

I'd love to get some links or source for links about the different methods of translating DAW tracks into the finals CD.

Thanks !

The link to look for is called "experience"

Let's address the issue step by step. You "dump" (mixdown) from Cubase via Fireface (analog board or just 2 outputs from your interface?) to the PR99.

How is your off tape monitor (repro head) sounding to you? What speakers/amps are you monitoring on?

[gilwe]

Hello Riccardo,

I so far used to play from Nuendo via my Fireface 800 SPDIF out,
and record it in real-time directly into Soundforge via my Delta 66 SPDIF in.

Than save the file as 44/16 wav.

I don't like the results at all as the sound as recorded in Soundforge is very much degraded compared to what I hear when I play the project in Nuendo ,
while my all intention is getting the sound as close to what I hear when I play the track inside Nuendo , on the final master. This is why I don't want to export from Nuendo
in the first place.

The mastering plugins on that particular track are used inside the Nuendo session
(I know that concept is basically wrong but too late to change on that particular mix as the "sweet spot" will get lost).

I bought a Revox PR99 which is still under refurbishment, should get it soon. I've been recommended to use RGMI 911 tape rather then 900 for mastering (what do you think ?)

My plan is to play directly from Nuendo to the Revox. But what's the best way to go on from there ? Should I still use the mastering pluings in Nuendo,
and only record from the Revox directly to the CD burner, so I don't loose quality ?

The result of dumping to Soundforge/Audition/Wavelab at 44/16 and then saving, just sucks. I don't want to loose quality at the process of getting the Nuendo project summed to the final CD.

My listening setup includes AKG271 headphones (which I use most of the time for monitoring, yet getting great mixes), Tannoy Reveal and a Samson Servo 260 amp.

Thanks for your advice !

[MAzevedo]

What bit rate/sample rate is nuendo running at? Are you sample-rate converting in the Delta 66? Using a bad SRC algorithm could be your problem.

As far as coming back in from the Revox, what is the difference between going to a CD recorder or going into a DAW? Unless you have much better converters on your CD recorder, there should be no benefit over not going back into a computer (and if that is the case, could you put the CD recorder into input monitor and record it's digital out into your DAW?)

I don't see how you can deal with ID placement or fadeouts or track spacing with any real control going straight to the CD recorder. Your claims of "losing quality" going to 16/44 sound overblown, assuming that all your SRC and dithering is being handled properly. If you are getting that big a change in sound quality then you are doing something wrong somewhere along the line.

[gilwe]

I use the delta SPDIF IN so no converters involved (?)

That was the reason I prefered using that procedure instead to just bounce in Nunedo (the result is never like playing within the project)

In Soundforge (or Audition), I simply create a new project at 44KHz 16bit,
while the Nuendo project is running at 44/16 as well. The degraded sound is heard when playing in Soundforge, even before saving the file.

Is there anywhere along the chain where I can loose quality ?

I know that when dealing with SPDIF, theoretically there shouldn't be any loss. Does that make sense ? I must admit I'm using very long, cheap quality RCA cables for SPDIF. Can that make the difference ? Or should I use a better card for input ?


I set both the FF800 and deltra SPDIF option to "Professional".

Thanks !

[scraggs]

so you have the track in nuendo and all your mastering plugs on the master in nuendo, correct? why not just bounce the file (with the plugs) and save it as a 24 or 32 bit float file, and then open that file up in soundforge, do your sequencing/tops n tails there, apply the dither and burn from there? seems pretty straightforward to me.

i'm a little dubious about going out to the revox and back in via the fireface converters, but hey whatever works.

[gilwe]

Alright !

So I founded that the "degradation" is due to the fact that the Nuendo session is actually 44KHz 32bit float, downgraded to 16bit when recorded to Soundforge...

What are the tricks used to maintain the 32bit quality when downgrading ?

Most of sound quality in that track lays just there !

What if I dump the session onto the Revox tape,
and burn directly from the tape to the CD Burner via its converter ?

Will I maintain more of the original quality that way ?...

Or would you recommend processing via tube compressor,
to "compensate" the quality loss ?

It's really quite frustrating after all.

[lucey]

Originally Posted by gilwe

Hi all,

I currently dump from Cubase via my Fireface into a Revox PR99 (1/4") but when I go back to Soundforge and then export 44/16 I get all that degradation in sound.

Should I idially burn CDs directly from the tape (i.e Revox -> CD burner) ?

I'd love to get some links or source for links about the different methods of translating DAW tracks into the finals CD.

Thanks !

Tape degrades. If you can make that degradation musical and you "like" the sound then it's a positive compromise. If it's a negative compromise then you would "not like" the sound.

So firstly I would ask why are you dumping to tape at all? If you don't want the distortion, compression, eq tilt and noise of the Revox then use a comp plug and mix in the box. There is no magic bullet with tape ... sometimes it's the wrong choice.

[mad-bax]

Originally Posted by gilwe

Hi all,

I currently dump from Cubase via my Fireface into a Revox PR99 (1/4") but when I go back to Soundforge and then export 44/16 I get all that degradation in sound.

Should I idially burn CDs directly from the tape (i.e Revox -> CD burner) ?

Thanks !

I don't think so!
But sure you can do that!

[MAzevedo]

Going directly into the CD recorder doesn't matter. I don't even see a reason to play from Nuendo to Sound Forge. Just export a 44/24(or 32) file out of Nuendo, open the file in Sound Forge, do your editing, dither it properly, and there you go. That is the best way to preserve the original sound of your mix when going down to 44/16 to burn an audio CD.

Now, if you are going out to the Revox for tape tone (ie, to change the sound of what you have in Nuendo, not to preserve it), than you want to come back from the tape into the best A/D converter you have, print it to a 44/24 file, edit it however you need to, and dither to 44/16 on the bounce. Going straight to a CD recorder has absolutely no benefit, unless the CD recorder has the best A/D in your studio, and you have no need to do edits or fades (because you would want to do those at 24 bit and then dither afterwords).

[joerod]

Originally Posted by gilwe

Hi all,

I currently dump from Cubase via my Fireface into a Revox PR99 (1/4") but when I go back to Soundforge and then export 44/16 I get all that degradation in sound.

Should I idially burn CDs directly from the tape (i.e Revox -> CD burner) ?

I'd love to get some links or source for links about the different methods of translating DAW tracks into the finals CD.

Thanks !

If the music was mixed correctly and your SNR is fair (floor below -59dB) I don't see why you are getting so much noticeable degradation.

I think what's happening is that you are not getting the signal hot into the tape (That's what analog is good for, you can go over the 0 dB mark on the VU meters and ...clip them damn meters, yeah!!)

I say this because 1/4" tapes have a higher noise floor and a more modest headroom than 1/2"s. So, you need to crank it up, baby!

This is even more true if your 1/4" is a 1/4 track deck.

By the time you go back to digital, that hiss from the heads is probably stuck in your mix.

Could this be the problem?