Lowering overall volume of Mixes for Mastering Delivery??

[DiViNCI of SoS]

So I'm working in logic.. Could someone (or a bunch of people for that matter) explain to me why I shouldn't just turn down my master fader on my session to get it to the recommended -3dbfs to -6dbfs for delivering to the mastering engineer. I have an idea why buy want some more informed opinions and observations. Also what about just throwing a gain plugin on the master and turning that down and leaving the fader alone.. any difference there?

I ask because I wonder if there is a way to lower an overall mix without having to go in and lower each fader and automation and all that..

please advise..

PEACE and LUV
DiViNCi of SoS
MySpace.com - Solillaquists of Sound - ORLANDO, Florida - Hip Hop / Experimental / Jazz - www.myspace.com/solilla
MySpace.com - DiViNCi of SoS - ORLANDO, FLORIDA - Hip Hop / Electronica / Experimental - www.myspace.com/divinci

[jsrockit]

Originally Posted by DiViNCI of SoS

So I'm working in logic.. Could someone (or a bunch of people for that matter) explain to me why I shouldn't just turn down my master fader on my session to get it to the recommended -3dbfs to -6dbfs for delivering to the mastering engineer.

Yes, I've been wondering why this is wrong as well. Anyone?

[MAzevedo]

Well, Logic runs all it's math at 32b float, so just there should be massive computational headroom. As long as you aren't clipping any of your channel processing, just pulling down the master fader should be fine. If you are clipping plugins or whatnot, then you will have to go back and make adjustments to you channel levels.

[Lagerfeldt]

Originally Posted by DiViNCI of SoS

Could someone (or a bunch of people for that matter) explain to me why I shouldn't just turn down my master fader on my session to get it to the recommended -3dbfs to -6dbfs for delivering to the mastering engineer.

No, they couldn't explain that. Well, they could try, but they would be wrong.

I have an idea why buy want some more informed opinions and observations. Also what about just throwing a gain plugin on the master and turning that down and leaving the fader alone.. any difference there?

Same result. It will null in theory but due to discrepancies between the fader value in the plug-in and the master fader there could be some residue in a null test. Using a gainer plug-in only makes sense if you're clipping your bus at fader unity and you're using plug-ins on the bus. In that case, insert the gainer plug-in and lower the volume. In other cases, simply drop the master fader until you get about 3 dB headroom.

I ask because I wonder if there is a way to lower an overall mix without having to go in and lower each fader and automation and all that..

Lower the master fader.

Logic works in a 32 bit float environment and there is 0% difference between lowering your channel faders and lowering the master fader, assuming you hit the same overall volume level and aren't using plug-ins on the master bus.

Using certain plug-ins on the master bus such as Waves L2 will make a difference since the input is fixed so you risk overloading the input if you're coming in too hot.

So good level practice is still important if you're using plug-ins on busses or plug-ins with fixed input. If you have a general problem with clipping the master then I suggest you start your next mix with lower channel volumes. You could also change the preference setting in Logic from Exponential to dB-linear level meter scaling to help you out visually while mixing.

A good trick is to set your kick or snare drum around -12 dBFS peak value. If this is your approximate reference level, and you're using a normal amount of compression and limiting, you will probably never come near clip the master at fader unity. And still have about 3 dB headroom left when bouncing.

[tonmeister]

Don't get me wrong I love logic, but I can't understand why I cant use the master fader to trim the mix level before it runs through the plugin chain.

[Torg]

Originally Posted by tonmeister

Don't get me wrong I love logic, but I can't understand why I cant use the master fader to trim the mix level before it runs through the plugin chain.

Cant you just add a gain plugin first in the chain ?

I think if you want to control the gain using logic channel fader before it goes to the master you can just select all channels in the mixer, hold "Ctrl" and change any channel output(i.e route) to a bus.
Because you held Ctrl, all channels will route to the selected bus together.
Now route this bus to your main output and control the gain with the bus channel fader. (which will be pre output/master). This takes about 10 sec.

Lagerfeldt, can you confirm if is this routing is "clear" or if it will affect the signal in any way ?

[tonmeister]

Originally Posted by Torg

Cant you just add a gain plugin first in the chain ?
or route to a bus.

Torg, yes these are both solutions, but I think that's what master faders should be there for.
My opinion stems from the fact that I am a long time Pro Tools user and are more used to the bussing of that system, and kind of expected logic to work that way too.
I don't wan't to turn this into a pissing contest, and I use and teach both systems to a high level. I do prefer the way pro tools does the master thing though.

Audio tracks and Auxiliaries go like this: file/input>Plugins>Fader>Meter
whereas master faders work like this: input>master fader>Plugins>Meter

this allows one to trim masters before they reach things like limiters - makes sense to me. Logics master fader seems a tad redundant when you are using a limiter. (a little off topic I know, you'd want to avoid limiters when supplying 24bit files to the ME)

[Torg]

Sure.

I am also mainly protools/logic.

i feel the exact same way regarding other features as i started in logic.

cheers

[Lagerfeldt]

Originally Posted by Torg

Lagerfeldt, can you confirm if is this routing is "clear" or if it will affect the signal in any way ?

Confirmed, this will not affect the signal in any way. Do a null test and it will null perfectly.

But just insert a gainer plug-in first and drop the volume.

Even if you already have inserted e.g. 3 plug-ins on your master, just hold down Option and double-click the EQ icon. This will move all plug-ins down one slot and you simply exchange the EQ for the gainer plug-in.

[Rev. Robb]

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt

Confirmed, this will not affect the signal in any way. Do a null test and it will null perfectly.

But just insert a gainer plug-in first and drop the volume.

Even if you already have inserted e.g. 3 plug-ins on your master, just hold down Option and double-click the EQ icon. This will move all plug-ins down one slot and you simply exchange the EQ for the gainer plug-in.

Lagerfeldt,

Would Sonalksis' "Free G" plugin be a good choice for the gainer plug? Is Logic's own Gain plug in any good?

[Lagerfeldt]

Logic's own plug-in does the job perfectly.

[Daft]

Originally Posted by DiViNCI of SoS

to get it to the recommended -3dbfs to -6dbfs for delivering to the mastering engineer.

Who recommends this, and why?