Full band Vs. Acoustic: A levels question

thedoner · 2nd July 2008

Greetings,
A question for all the pro mastering types in here.
How to you deal with setting relative levels between full band and acoustic material when mastering for CD?
For example:

Song 1 is hard rock, vocals, big drums, heavy bass, distorted gtr's etc.
Songs 2 is acoustic gtr. and vocal only
Song 3 is hard rock, similar to song1

What is the mindset here? Clearly, Song 2 will (and probably should) lack some of the impact of Songs 1 & 3 in the low end. But how should the overall perceived loudness be determined? By the the vocal level perhaps? Or, do you actually make Song 2 louder to compensate for that lack of sonic punch?
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated,
Doner

MASSIVE Master · 3rd July 2008

You do what best serves the mix in the context of the project holistically. There's no answer to that question without actually having the mixes running. And then, there'll be 10 different answers from 20 different engineers.

thedoner · 3rd July 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by MASSIVE Master

You do what best serves the mix in the context of the project holistically. There's no answer to that question without actually having the mixes running. And then, there'll be 10 different answers from 20 different engineers.

Fair enough, John. But it's those 10 different answers that I'm looking for to gain some insight into how they, or you for example, might approach the situation.
Best,
Doner

MASSIVE Master · 3rd July 2008

I hear you - But the holistic approach is still the only way to go. Acoustic tunes are (*GENERALLY*) very easy to make gigantically loud compared to a hard-rock crunch fest. Sometimes you'll want that song as loud. Sometimes not. Sometimes you'd want it to start at a particular level and end up at another to make it fit better with the one that follows it.

lucey · 3rd July 2008

I'd do the loud one(s), then the quiet one to flow. It's subjective. Personally I don't listen for "consistent vocal level" ... I just listen for musical flow and a result that 'sounds famous' ... i.e. is most flattering to the project.

2nd July 2008	#1
thedoner Gear addict Joined: Dec 2006 Location: NYCish Posts: 314 Thread Starter	Full band Vs. Acoustic: A levels question Greetings, A question for all the pro mastering types in here. How to you deal with setting relative levels between full band and acoustic material when mastering for CD? For example: Song 1 is hard rock, vocals, big drums, heavy bass, distorted gtr's etc. Songs 2 is acoustic gtr. and vocal only Song 3 is hard rock, similar to song1 What is the mindset here? Clearly, Song 2 will (and probably should) lack some of the impact of Songs 1 & 3 in the low end. But how should the overall perceived loudness be determined? By the the vocal level perhaps? Or, do you actually make Song 2 louder to compensate for that lack of sonic punch? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated, Doner __________________ There is no monopoly of common sense, on either side of the political fence.

3rd July 2008	#2
MASSIVE Master Lives for gear Joined: Mar 2004 Location: Chicago (Schaumburg / Hoffman Est.) IL Posts: 2,709 Verified Member	You do what best serves the mix in the context of the project holistically. There's no answer to that question without actually having the mixes running. And then, there'll be 10 different answers from 20 different engineers. __________________ John Scrip - Massive Mastering, LLC - www.massivemastering.com Spoon-feed a newb some answer and he'll mix for a day - Get him to think about it and figure it out for himself and he'll mix for a lifetime --- JS

3rd July 2008	#5
lucey Gear Guru Joined: Dec 2002 Location: Columbus, Ohio Posts: 12,407 Verified Member	I'd do the loud one(s), then the quiet one to flow. It's subjective. Personally I don't listen for "consistent vocal level" ... I just listen for musical flow and a result that 'sounds famous' ... i.e. is most flattering to the project. __________________ Brian Lucey Magic Garden Mastering Dr. John, The Shins, The Black Keys, OAR, David Lynch, Sami Yusuf, moe., Sigur Ros Spiral Groove Studio One - mixing monitors

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