Mastering Classical String Music

[JDN]

I just got a classical CD to master, it's a rush job so I need to do it tonight and tomorrow morn...Just curious, can someone recomend a good contemporary reference CD for this type of music that I can go out and buy now. This is mostrly instrumental small strings sections, some songs have some piano and brass and some other instruments, but it's not huge orchestral music ala John Williams.

I'm mainly concerned about level and not squashing or overlimmiting and preserving the wide dynamic reange. Frankly, I'm not sure what the modern standards are for loudness and compression for a contemporary classical CD...hopefully not like the pop and rock CD's I usually do.

[Bob Olhsson]

To the best of my knowledge limiting is very unusual in that genre.

[JDN]

I basically just looked at the various grammy noms for best engineered album classical last year as well as several other classical catagories, and i'm off to virgin records....

[polybonk]

Tell us how it goes. Im interested in this also

[joeaudio]

The last time I worked on music in this genre the rule
was "as long as the program peaks at 0, your levels are good"
No compression or limiting.
It usually was more of an editing job than straight mastering.
Removing noises, adding room tone between pieces, that sort of thing.
Maybe a little air on top and filtering rumble.
I would also be interested in what you find on current releases as it's
been a while.
Has level madness infiltrated classical?

Joe

[kjg]

do not compress & do not limit. also keep the levels intact between tracks. this means that probably only one of the tracks will hit 0dBFS. leave the dynamics 100% intact. just clean up, as suggested in other posts.
you should of course match levels if you edit one track out of two or more takes.
you could do some minimal flattering broadbrush eq-ing (warmth/air/etc), and slightly attenuate any resonance that is a bit too much with a phase linear eq. any broadband eq should most probably be on the whole project. resonances could be track specific depending on the tonality.

good luck!

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by kjg

do not compress & do not limit. also keep the levels intact between tracks. this means that probably only one of the tracks will hit 0dBFS. leave the dynamics 100% intact. just clean up, as suggested in other posts.
you should of course match levels if you edit one track out of two or more takes.
you could do some minimal flattering broadbrush eq-ing (warmth/air/etc), and slightly attenuate any resonance that is a bit too much with a phase linear eq. any broadband eq should most probably be on the whole project. resonances could be track specific depending on the tonality.

good luck!

Parallel compression is actually common , except on Naxos stuff where they prohibit it. I've done a LOT of classical producing, recording and mixing for EMI, Classic FM (eek), Naxos and others. Mixes DO get compressed - not much, just a subtle bit with gentle knees - on things like STC. Often a little parallel compression is used. You DO see limiting , but only just shaving off the peaks of the very loudest parts just to get a tiny bit more overall level. It's a lot more subtle than rock mixing, but it is common to compress and limit.

[Adam Dempsey]

Originally Posted by joeaudio

No compression or limiting.
It usually was more of an editing job than straight mastering.
Removing noises, adding room tone between pieces, that sort of thing.
Maybe a little air on top and filtering rumble.

Hey, whatd'ya know that's still mastering!

[staudio]

When working with classical and some acoustic music it is good to keep the purist techniques in mind, but do what is required to deliver a satisfying product. Sometimes the dynamics of a performance or part of a performance are inconsistent or not musical, therefore a little compression of some kind can help. I would certainly be restrained with the use of it, but it's not a mortal musical sin. Some younger conductors might even ask you to compress it more than you are used to, it has happened to me a few times.

[JDN]

It all worked out really well. I went to virgin to buy some classical CD's as referance. I was actually surprised that they were a little louder than I thought they'd be...not crazy loud and oversompressed, but a little more than i would have thought...and god forbid, I heard distortion at a few points which I really thought was taboo in that world(and i would never do).

I earared on the side of caution. All the files I was sent peaked at -2db...I basically used a little eq, no compression(as they strangely had more compression than i would have liked for that genre to begin with) on most tracks. The L3 and C4(similar multi band beasts) actually came in usefull when used EXTREMELY MODERATELY and conservatively. I'm saying maybe had threshold of L3 set at 3db, and considering the material was -2, was barely touching the L3(like maybe 1 DB). I was mainly, believe it or not, using the L3 on some tracks and the C4 on others more to impart their tonal qualities than to serve as real limiters or compressors...There's definitely a real seperation you can get from these multiband limiters/compressors that are condusive to poorly recorded sources, be it classical or otherwise.

[matyas]

There's actually a thread on this very subject over on the Remote Possibilities forum.

[Legacy]

Hi JDN,

Really nice to see someone go to such lengths - expending time and money to tailor the work to the music.

Shows a real dedication to your (and other's) art and a humbleness to admit when you need to stretch the ears a bit (regardless of how good you are at other styles).

Nice recipe for being a great mastering engineer (or a great 'pretty much anything else').

Thanks,
Silas

[joeaudio]

Originally Posted by Boomshanka

Hey, whatd'ya know that's still mastering!

More focus on editing rather than tweaking dynamics processes and EQ
is what I meant.

Joe

[polybonk]

EAR 660's have a 25 second release time for classical music according to what I read on the mercenary audio site. This feature really made me interested in the unit because all of the sleep music I master is in the same way as classical. Any other units have long release times?

[JDN]

Originally Posted by Legacy

Hi JDN,

Really nice to see someone go to such lengths - expending time and money to tailor the work to the music.

Shows a real dedication to your (and other's) art and a humbleness to admit when you need to stretch the ears a bit (regardless of how good you are at other styles).

Nice recipe for being a great mastering engineer (or a great 'pretty much anything else').

Thanks,
Silas

Hey man, thanks for the compliments. Classical is definietly not a genre I've dealt with before but hey, it's 2 track, it's music, and we have ears and it's not that difficult to figure out what's going on and what it needs...especially with good references. Frankly, the main reason I went and bought some CD's was to figure out the conventions of the genre with loudness, casue I assumed it would be totally different than any of the other genres I work with(Rock, Pop, R&B, Hip-Hop, etc).

Having some good references definitely took a lot of the guesswork out of the job and made everything a lot easier.

[anabolique]

Originally Posted by matyas

There's actually a thread on this very subject over on the Remote Possibilities forum.

Could you post a link or name or title of this thread? I couldnt find the right one, obviously...

[achaiss]

Originally Posted by kjg

do not compress & do not limit. also keep the levels intact between tracks. this means that probably only one of the tracks will hit 0dBFS. leave the dynamics 100% intact. just clean up, as suggested in other posts.
you should of course match levels if you edit one track out of two or more takes.
you could do some minimal flattering broadbrush eq-ing (warmth/air/etc), and slightly attenuate any resonance that is a bit too much with a phase linear eq. any broadband eq should most probably be on the whole project. resonances could be track specific depending on the tonality.

good luck!

it's possible to "compress" this kind of music with adding a good (and of course subtle) harmonic distortion.

I use it with the "attitude" knob on my summing box (fat bustard), it reveals lots of harmonics and add a soft "glue" effect.

Results: beautiful definition, more punch and dynamic, few stéréo enhancement and I don't lost mono corelation.

Customers are always happy with this.

[Plugin]

The least intrusion possible! Eq is common, and maybe slight compression and limiting, but nothing else. ''Balance'' is the keyword.
R.I.P Walter Legge

[dtf]

Hi,

Clients do have certain expectations in regards to loudness of classical music CDs - generally they are more happy when they don't notice their recordings are perceived softer than others. No surprises there!

The problem with complex programme material, such as music played by symphony orchestras, is that one quickly changes balance when filtering or compressing. A dB less, or more, can quickly change the impression of an orchestral balance. This may sometimes save you, but in general will defeat the purpose and it explains why, in acoustical recording, you will always want to be doing it right from the start. Doesn't matter if you multitrack or not, you can't move the mics later!

In my experience, your microphone setup (in coordination with the actual playing and the room) will determine the loudness of your recording. With a simple string section you might still gain something, but even then that HF boost might not only brighten your strings but also pull forward that piano.

Best,
Dirk

[Larry Elliott]

Originally Posted by narcoman

Parallel compression is actually common , except on Naxos stuff where they prohibit it.

Hey Narco - do you have any idea why? I thought Naxos let producers determine what to submit.
Larry