Mastering Compressors or Compressors for Mastering

[Brooklyn]

I know there have been a few threads on here where people vent their compressor needs and woes...

I am a decent engineer; don't have the income (yet) in getting that top gear ($5000-$15000 per unit) --but I would like to ask you all, especially those that have been in this for 5 years plus, what a decent compressor would be.

I made a general list that is within my price range:

1) TF Pro P38
2) Avalon 2044
3) Pendulum OCL-2
4) Waves MaxxBCL
5) API 2500

The P38 seem good, since I have the stereo image control, seems like it would be flexible, but it lacks what other compressors seem to have (2 VUs, and individual L/R controls).

Avalon is sturdy and I liked the 2055 EQ, but not really ideal for mastering (I think)... does anyone vouch for this COMP in the mastering realm? Is it flexible enough with Attack/Release?

Many people on these boards "big-up" the OCL-2. I never used it, looks a lot like a slightly sweeter DBX. Or is this unit s staple in mastering houses?

As far as the BCL goes... i just put it on the list since I have a mostly digital setup (ZSYS and SPL with Apogee converters) -- so for simplicity, I put it on here as an option to keep the AES stream intact.

The API2500 looks really nice to me; but is it capable of driving and really contouring most music? Seem like it would be great for mix-down or recording, what about mastering?

Please give me your thoughts and if you could give me a TOP 3 on your list or from my list. Main thing is my budget is $2000-$2500 --so I would be going wither within that range online or go with eBay.

Help me out oh wise ones!

Thanks.

[Brooklyn]

Any word from the 80+ people that viewed this link???

I would love to hear what you all think, since I need to make this deal happen this week.

[MASSIVE Master]

I try to find a used Crane Song STC8. It quickly became my "if I could only have one" compressor.

[Brooklyn]

Thanks, I see those sometimes... but usually for like $3500.

What about the $2000-$2500 range?

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by Brooklyn

What about the $2000-$2500 range?

A used Manley Vari-Mu. On Ebay that's about the going rate for them.

I think if you need clean compression there are lots of ways to do it that don't require a "clean" sounding analog compressor. When it comes to color or size though its a different story.

[macc]

I have a tfpro38 and really like it.

It's not a big ballsy compressor, but it does do a very wide variety of things very well. Mode 1 (VCA) for faster fairly-invisible/grabby-type stuff, Mode 4 for deeper, creamier sound, and it is great for all manner of mixing and creative duties. Sounds very good and clean, banging stuff into the input transformer sounds good, the width control is great, the balance control gets more use than I'd have thought, so it is a very useful box.

My favourite thing about it is that the sidechain is set up so well. It just knows what to compress and what not to. Great stuff.

And - let's be frank - it's pretty cheap too. Probably a master of none, but certainly a very capable jack of all trades IMHO. I run it after an Avalon 747 and they get on very nicely indeed

[kjg]

1 pendulum
2 tfpro
3 api

[Fabio]

Originally Posted by MASSIVE Master

I try to find a used Crane Song STC8. It quickly became my "if I could only have one" compressor.

[Lagerfeldt]

Originally Posted by MASSIVE Master

I try to find a used Crane Song STC8. It quickly became my "if I could only have one" compressor.

I'll second that too

[Brooklyn]

Does anyone else have any thoughts on the TF PRO P38???

(it really seems like it has a few great option)

Thanks

[jdg]

i had one, it was not useful for me in mastering.

[yeloocproducer]

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt

I'll second that too

in triplicate...

[Brooklyn]

Okay guys... I get the picture.

What's a close 2nd to Crane Song?

My budget is $2500. Would that be Pendulum?

[Lagerfeldt]

Originally Posted by Brooklyn

What's a close 2nd to Crane Song?

None of these unfortunately.

Originally Posted by Brooklyn

Avalon is sturdy and I liked the 2055 EQ, but not really ideal for mastering (I think)... does anyone vouch for this COMP in the mastering realm? Is it flexible enough with Attack/Release?

Very "firm" especially the low end is smooth and controlled. Overall it can be quite neutral in terms of envelope. Which is also why it's slightly boring to my ears. But nevertheless a fine compressor also suitable in a mastering situation. Small knobs make it less than perfect to recall if that's important to you.

Originally Posted by Brooklyn

The API2500 looks really nice to me; but is it capable of driving and really contouring most music? Seem like it would be great for mix-down or recording, what about mastering?

Certainly not most music, but it can shape quite a bit, and also has a place in a mastering rig. I think of the API2500 as an SSL alternative, great for strapping on the mix but not as a real mastering compressor.

None of these qualify as the only compressor in a setup. But for mastering (and you could only get 1) I'd go for the Avalon out of the two mentioned.

[Brooklyn]

Thanks for that slight break-down.

What would you get for $2400-$2500???

[Lagerfeldt]

The Avalon and Pendulum both exceed your budget AFAIK.

The only one that fits is the API 2500.

I would loan, pawn and steal money to afford a used standard edition Crane Song STC-8.

Money you spend on lesser compressors now is money partly wasted in 2 years time when you decide to buy an STC-8 anyway. :-)

[lucey]

I wont comment as the premise is misleading.

Mastering is not for the budget weary and I don't see the point in shopping by price. You will either get tools you can use, or you'll be spending more money later for tools you can use. So why not just do it right? I'm still paying for my studio, but the tools are all working very well. Sure there are times when I have retooled, but it was never based on budget. That's what banks are for.

It's too competitive a market to be average. Your goal should be to do great work, so get the right tools, don't shop by price. If that means a little debt then you're going to pay that off over time with the money that comes from doing great work. If you spend time buying and buying and buying, always to hit price points over and over.... and all along your work is less that it's best, then what did you profit with a price point and the time wasted?

I'd rather be happy in my work and have clients happy with it while paying down a little debt, than to be debt free and not doing my best work. Shop for the tools that assist you in your best work, not for price points. Money comes from the work, so shop to be able to work.

[Lagerfeldt]

Yup, I've learned the hard way myself.

Spent $80,000 buying the "wrong" gear (though it did get me producing some hits earning the money back very quickly).

Then spent another $165,000 getting what I should have bought in the first place - including acoustics which is a HUGE part of the package not to be underestimated.

Which is exactly why I strongly advocate getting the right thing from the start.

Of course there is nothing wrong with getting something else or lesser (for mastering at least) if your ambitions are more modest.

I hope you don't see this as me or anyone else trying to force expensive gear down your throat but it's actually sensible advice.

[Silver Sonya]

Originally Posted by lucey

I wont comment as the premise is misleading.

Mastering is not for the budget weary and I don't see the point in shopping by price. You will either get tools you can use, or you'll be spending more money later for tools you can use. So why not just do it right? I'm still paying for my studio, but the tools are all working very well. Sure there are times when I have retooled, but it was never based on budget. That's what banks are for.

It's too competitive a market to be average. Your goal should be to do great work, so get the right tools, don't shop by price. If that means a little debt then you're going to pay that off over time with the money that comes from doing great work. If you spend time buying and buying and buying, always to hit price points over and over.... and all along your work is less that it's best, then what did you profit with a price point and the time wasted?

I'd rather be happy in my work and have clients happy with it, while paying down a little debt, than to be debt free and not doing my best work. Shop for tools, not for prices. Money comes, good work is earned.

I think this is an admirable, passionate philosophy and I respect it.

But I would like to add a counter-thought:

Many studios go under because of drowning in debt. I have seen it many, many times just in my own city. It's sad. People get in over their heads and buy beyond their actual, real world reputation and beyond the reach of their charisma. Charisma is an important thing for studios. Some have it, others don't. I saw a production studio in my town begin with a huge and beautiful live space, a Trident board that sounded like God, a Studer 827 and ATR102, lovely outboard, etc.

In short, they had everything. Everything but actual clients.

What happened? You guessed it. Gone within a couple years, never to be heard from again.

Studio charisma is a blend of many factors: personality, the body of work, actual skill, the physical charm of the space, the equipment. By far the first two are the most important. My studio is a suite within a larger studio that has existed for 25+ years while many other studios have come and gone. (I've only been here for 10). What makes a studio survive for more than a quarter of a century? Balance.

Debt is to be avoided wherever possible. Don't embrace it happily. Accept it begrudgingly. There's an art to fiscal conservation and it can be a beautiful art. Keep your life in balance. It's a simple principal from yoga, zen, Gandhi, biology, etc. and it applies to studio economics very gracefully. Stay in balance. Always always always.

In the professional world, reputation is everything and gear is only a small part of that.

- c

[lucey]

I'm not suggesting he go overboard, nor that gear is the ticket. I'm just saying that the tool you want to buy is the right one.

[Silver Sonya]

Originally Posted by lucey

I'm not suggesting he go overboard, nor that gear is the ticket. I'm just saying that the tool you want to buy is the right one.

Word. I'm fully with you on that.

- c

[macc]

I agree with Lucey generally, but in the wider picture it's a little more flexible or rather... stratified. I mean, as there are levels of ME (big time pros, semi-pro, amateurs etc), there are levels of budget for those ME's, which in turn are in line with the budgets of the people paying them.

My setup follows the lines described - it cost a bit too much but the work is good enough that things end up paying for themselves. It isn't in line cost-wise with the true pros, but it is still in line with that model.

Of course, none of this takes away from the fact that you get what you pay for - if anything it proves that you get what you pay for. And paying for a pro ME gets pro results. Having the best tools you can afford may not get you the *right* ones, but it might get you to a position where you a) know beter what the right tools for you are, and b) can afford them!

Just thinking out loud, you know.

[Cellotron]

Originally Posted by Silver Sonya

I think this is an admirable, passionate philosophy and I respect it.

But I would like to add a counter-thought:

Many studios go under because of drowning in debt. I have seen it many, many times just in my own city. It's sad. People get in over their heads and buy beyond their actual, real world reputation and beyond the reach of their charisma. Charisma is an important thing for studios. Some have it, others don't. I saw a production studio in my town begin with a huge and beautiful live space, a Trident board that sounded like God, a Studer 827 and ATR102, lovely outboard, etc.

In short, they had everything. Everything but actual clients.

What happened? You guessed it. Gone within a couple years, never to be heard from again.

Studio charisma is a blend of many factors: personality, the body of work, actual skill, the physical charm of the space, the equipment. By far the first two are the most important. My studio is a suite within a larger studio that has existed for 25+ years while many other studios have come and gone. (I've only been here for 10). What makes a studio survive for more than a quarter of a century? Balance.

Debt is to be avoided wherever possible. Don't embrace it happily. Accept it begrudgingly. There's an art to fiscal conservation and it can be a beautiful art. Keep your life in balance. It's a simple principal from yoga, zen, Gandhi, biology, etc. and it applies to studio economics very gracefully. Stay in balance. Always always always.

In the professional world, reputation is everything and gear is only a small part of that.

- c

Excellent post!! In todays economic climate - where energy and commodity costs are without a question going to continue to rise for the near future - that I think it's doubly important to stay out of debt as well.

As far as the $2500 dollar range - the API 2500 is an excellent compressor that I've gotten tons of great results from in mastering that is exactly at this price point. The Pendulum Audio OCL-2 is also in this price range and can work great on many sources as well - but I tend to use my API 2500 more.

I've got to agree with Brian though on the fact that often it is important to budget slightly more for some critical elements so that you don't end up losing in the end by selling the lower cost items at a loss and then replacing them with the higher priced item in the future. i.e. if you have $2500 saved right now - sometimes it can be better to wait for the time period to save another $1000 or so in order to get a piece of gear that is more what you are looking for.

I disagree with many of the posters here that $2500 can't get you an excellent compressor that will work well in mastering - but on the other hand I agree with them that $2500 will not get you a mastering compressor that works well on every track.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[Cellotron]

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt

I think of the API2500 as an SSL alternative, great for strapping on the mix but not as a real mastering compressor.

I completely disagree with this based on direct experience and tons of client approvals of refs where the tracks were processed with the API 2500.

As always with processor choices - and what the above differing views clearly illustrates - these things are very subjective!! The internet is a terrible place to make these kind of judgements - best thing is to get the item into your own studio to demo it out for yourself as one persons treasure is another persons trash! (and visa versa).

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[lucey]

Right, subjective. The API is hard to reset and not clear enough IMO, but if it works for you then it works for you. No one need tell anyone else their tool is good or bad for them. My point in posting was to question this seemingly rigid budgeting process as a way to real satisfaction. Money is money, work is work. Get the right gear and it pays for itself in time saved and work made. That week in late '06 that I added the Alpha, just like the week I added the Fairman a couple of years earlier, saw immediate results in work product, joy, satisfaction, time saved ... and the responses to my work went up measurably. Both were much more money than I had in mind. And at this point, I couldn't do without either, and have no plans to ever part with them. Peace of mind in that.

Debt is a form of energy. So is frustration. So is time. The revolving door of 'saving money' is a bigger problem than a reasonable debt to me. The "right" tool is priceless and finding it by price is almost impossible as it biases the mind. If you're biased toward or away from anything based on high or low price then you can't evaluate it fairly. When I went from the STC to the p38 ($1400) I was so happy. Then went to the Alpha from the p38 (ouch). Neither was a money decision however.

When you plug something in, you'll know. If it's right for you, you'll find a way to pay for it now or save up for it for later. And if you don't know if it's right ... don't buy anything!



Sorry for the diversion, I hope you get the right thing.

[Brooklyn]

I definitely appreciate everyone's comments in my listing...

I agree with Lucey that work is work and that as long as I am able to produce good results, i should be focusing on that -- without question!

It should've been made more clear by me that for me these $2500 represents the compressor I hope to make due with and work steady with... for a while.

Probably wont have any money to add to that, unless I work, so I need a compressor... so it's a bit of the chicken and the egg thing.

I have some ZSYS EQ and SPL limiter, and my routing is flowing into a plugin for compression --since my main compressor was a piece I borrowed and can not afford.

I am looking to upgrade to a good, solid, workable, piece of gear that has more advantages than disadvantages.

Everyone's input has really been a good catalyst here.

So maybe we can expand this talk away from my list of compressors, and to any compressor with adequate flexibility and solid design.

Any other suggestions?

I see a few posts here on the Alan Smart compressors, the API, SSL (mix bus clones), and the rest of the gear I mentioned in the first post on here.

Are the comp's I missed? Anything else you all can recommend?

[lucey]

The Alta Moda Unicomp is a cool mix comp but compared to API or SSL types it's worth a serious look. Signal path = clean in the mids and top, a little low end fatness.

The UNICOMP

[Brooklyn]

Yes, that one looks great.

But since I find that in mastering... what something costs is what you get. You really do get what you pay for,... is there something else not mentioned within the $2500 price range?

[Lagerfeldt]

Originally Posted by Cellotron

I completely disagree with this based on direct experience and tons of client approvals of refs where the tracks were processed with the API 2500.

I actually don't think we disagree that much :-) I like the API 2500 *very* much, and it sounds great on many mixes. My neighbour studio has one.

I'm just saying that I wouldn't get it as my only "mastering" compressor.

[Tube World]

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt

I'll second that too

I thought the Cranesong is just a nice transparent compressor. The Manley Vari Mu adds character, the OCL-2 adds a 3 dim sheen to the music while they both gel the music. Why won't you choose one of these over the Cranesong?