How to create a center track from a stereo mix?

[DrummerGuy09]

I remember reading a thread not too long ago on how to create a mono track of everything that is panned center in a mix. After an hour of searching, I can't find the thread.

So if someone could please explain to me how to go about creating a center/mono track from a stereo mix that would be great.

-Thanks!

[peeder]

Originally Posted by DrummerGuy09

I remember reading a thread not too long ago on how to create a mono track of everything that is panned center in a mix. After an hour of searching, I can't find the thread.

So if someone could please explain to me how to go about creating a center/mono track from a stereo mix that would be great.

-Thanks!

There are plugins that do mid-side encode/decode but you don't say what your DAW is. You can do it with a series of polarity inverters in a pinch.

[DrummerGuy09]

Thanks for responding.
I'm using PTHD 7.1

What is the procedure using polarity?

[peeder]

Originally Posted by DrummerGuy09

Thanks for responding.
I'm using PTHD 7.1

What is the procedure using polarity?

Just get Massey Tools...

smassey.com

The Mid-side plugin, I think the L channel will be mid in encode mode. You'll hear it. (Update: corrected below)

[narcoman]

not sure i understand you right Peeder.... the "mid" channel on mid/side is just the mono combined signal of left and right.....nothing special about it really....that's all the Massey stuff is doing.......i'm probably not understanding what yer saying though ! So please forgive!

[peeder]

Oh sorry I didn't test it first....let me fiddle a sec...

I did it with a multi-mono trim plugin with a phase inversion.

But easiest is to download bx_solo and press "M Solo":

MS-Mastering Tools by Brainworx-Media

Useful plugin in general. Oh, and it's free!

[Bob Olhsson]

This is the best!

[masteringhouse]

Originally Posted by DrummerGuy09

Thanks for responding.
I'm using PTHD 7.1

What is the procedure using polarity?

This may help:

mid-side processing

[MASSIVE Master]

From the Brainworx site:

There is a reason why all of the big mastering places all over the world have been using this technique for decades – without really telling anyone about it…

Okie dokie... That's it - Secret's out.

[John Suitcase]

I was working on a plug to do this, that would output the center, the side, just the left(minus the center), and just the right(minus the center.) It seems to work ok, but it got me thinking that when I was doing this, my 'side' signal isn't really the sides, because one side in inverted, from the encoding process, correct? So, how would I get the 'side' signal for just the left or right?

I realize that if I decode it in the traditional way (the three-fader, with the side flipped on one fader panned opposite the unflipped 'side' fader), I can get the left and right signals back out again, but is there a way to just get the side from one side? It seems that if you could get the center, you could use that to cancel the side portion of just one side, if that makes any sense...

Or am I nuts?

[masteringhouse]

Originally Posted by John Suitcase

I was working on a plug to do this, that would output the center, the side, just the left(minus the center), and just the right(minus the center.) It seems to work ok, but it got me thinking that when I was doing this, my 'side' signal isn't really the sides, because one side in inverted, from the encoding process, correct? So, how would I get the 'side' signal for just the left or right?

I realize that if I decode it in the traditional way (the three-fader, with the side flipped on one fader panned opposite the unflipped 'side' fader), I can get the left and right signals back out again, but is there a way to just get the side from one side? It seems that if you could get the center, you could use that to cancel the side portion of just one side, if that makes any sense...

Or am I nuts?

I think that you're basically following the same law as the M/S process but you still need to encode and decode (see the "math" in my link above). If you have the center (M) it consists of (L+R). If you invert either L or R channel with this you get (L+R) - L = R or (L+R) - R = L.

[smoke]

Bit off topic, but relevant. Does anyone know if the UAD Fairchild in Lat/Vert is really resulting in left channel=mid, right channel=side.

Seems like it's still left/right to me. In theory shouldn't I be able to turn the left(lat) channel off and only hear the side channel?

As it is, I cannot tell what is happening, even with an analyzer.

[peeder]

Originally Posted by smoke

Bit off topic, but relevant. Does anyone know if the UAD Fairchild in Lat/Vert is really resulting in left channel=mid, right channel=side.

Seems like it's still left/right to me. In theory shouldn't I be able to turn the left(lat) channel off and only hear the side channel?

As it is, I cannot tell what is happening, even with an analyzer.

I think the idea there is to process the mid and side separately, but then re-assemble them as normal stereo before returning the audio to you.

The Flux plugins and some others also offer this feature.

[smoke]

Originally Posted by peeder

I think the idea there is to process the mid and side separately, but then re-assemble them as normal stereo before returning the audio to you.

The Flux plugins and some others also offer this feature.

Aw shucks...

Thanks for the prompt answer. I fail to see the point of this, since the point of m/s routing would be to have the option of enhancing/adjusting the mid or side balance. If it's blending it all back, then what have I accomplished? Or is the Fairchild just being true to the historical, practical use of m/s?

Darn, it would have been nice to be able to send audio to the Fairchild, and process the sides, as parallel. That was my idea in purchasing it.

[peeder]

Originally Posted by smoke

Aw shucks...

Thanks for the prompt answer. I fail to see the point of this, since the point of m/s routing would be to have the option of enhancing/adjusting the mid or side balance. If it's blending it all back, then what have I accomplished? Or is the Fairchild just being true to the historical, practical use of m/s?

Darn, it would have been nice to be able to send audio to the Fairchild, and process the sides, as parallel. That was my idea in purchasing it.

You process the mid and sides with their own settings, right? And then blend them back together.

So say you want to pump the vocal but leave the cymbals alone. Fine, crush the mid, go light on the sides. All wrapped back up for you before exiting the plugin.

I don't have the plugin in front of me but it may involve unlinking the channels or using "dual" mode or something like that. Yeah, the unlink the controls switch on the bottom. Not sure how the sidechain works on that. Read the manual!

[Led]

Yes you need to unlink the sidechain and controls. Everything you can adjust seperately in lat/vert mode has a red lat or vert next to the normal white writing -threshold, time constabt etc. The L R input gain controls are pre the ms encoding matrix and the L R output gain are post it the decoding matrix. So you can process the mid and side seperately but you cant isolate them as they are recombined to stereo before the output of the plugin. I believe this is the way the real ones work but I've never used one. The lateral and vertical were the grooves in the record weren't they?

[smoke]

Originally Posted by Led

Yes you need to unlink the sidechain and controls. Everything you can adjust seperately in lat/vert mode has a red lat or vert next to the normal white writing -threshold, time constabt etc. The L R input gain controls are pre the ms encoding matrix and the L R output gain are post it the decoding matrix. So you can process the mid and side seperately but you cant isolate them as they are recombined to stereo before the output of the plugin. I believe this is the way the real ones work but I've never used one. The lateral and vertical were the grooves in the record weren't they?

I will have to take some material and analyze what is going on. I understand what you're saying, but I'm not able to use it to my advantage yet. Not quite the effect I had in mind, whenever I try to tune things with L/V unlink settings.

If I do not input any side info (0 input on R channel) (0 output gain on R channel), what is being combined into the final stereo out? There is no mid info being input into the compressor... why would it blend mid in with side, if it isn't being fed in the 1st place?

This may have been answered already, and I'm only confusing myself

-Yes, I do think lat refers to width of groove, vert the height.
FWIW, I am not trying this for a master buss effect. It's experminetal stuff.

(RTFM is one thing, but I mainly learn from my ears, BTW

[Tapwatr]

Is the idea of the Brainworx bx_solo to allow you to bounce out the parts to create the 3 channels you need to do M/S processing?

[peeder]

Originally Posted by Tapwatr

Is the idea of the Brainworx bx_solo to allow you to bounce out the parts to create the 3 channels you need to do M/S processing?

No, it's to add width with the width knob. But you can use the solo functions as you please.

And you only use 2 channels for mid/side processing.