Recording at lower levels in a DAW?

[MASSIVE Master]

If so, then I don't see why people would argue to record at really low levels, run it throguh all the plugs at those low levels, and then push it back up at the end. It's exactly the same as bad gain staging.

Again, we're not talking "low" -- We're talking "normal" -- If you run a steady signal into a preamp and have the meter read around 0dBVU and then run that signal into a DAW and it's sitting at -18dBFS, then -18dBFS isn't "low" -- It's "ideal." Granted, peaks are going to read somewhat higher here and there, etc., etc.

Let me put it another way -- That article was aimed at "newbs" and rookies who have "track as hot as possible as long as you don't clip" syndrome.

They're using "incredibly budget-friendly" gear that really has no usable headroom and then overdriving it on the input thinking that their mixes will be louder in the end because of it (while in reality, they're pretty much shooting themselves in the foot right off the bat).

With a lot of "more seasoned" engineers, with better gear (with "real" headroom) and better ears, it's not as big of an issue (although I've changed more than a few minds about it anyway) depending on how their converters are calibrated (ask a "newb" what level his AD is calibrated to and watch the look on his face).

But in any case -- I can't imagine a time where someone would record tracks peaking at around -10dBFS and still not have to turn several tracks down to avoid clipping the main buss during the mix. Even the best-case scenario would only leave a dB or two of headroom on the 2-buss... Maybe...

[Dean Roddey]

The entire ProTools HD DSP system is 24 bit integer, isn't it? Plenty of plugs expand out to 48 bits internally, but would have to dither back to 24 bit ont he way out again, so a signal could have been dithered back to 24 bits (or at least truncated back to 24 bits) numerous times before it comes out the other end. And those plugs (like Waves) that exist primarily for ProTools probably use those same 48 bit integer format internally even on platforms like SONAR that use 32 bit or 64 bit floating point, right?

[beyarecords]

Originally Posted by Dean Roddey

The entire ProTools HD DSP system is 24 bit integer, isn't it?

48 bits truncated down to 24 bits going into plugins.

[Dean Roddey]

But in any case -- I can't imagine a time where someone would record tracks peaking at around -10dBFS and still not have to turn several tracks down to avoid clipping the main buss during the mix. Even the best-case scenario would only leave a dB or two of headroom on the 2-buss... Maybe...

Sure, that's not unlikely, but you turn them down POST processing, so the plugs all get a nice signal to work on, then you pull it down via the faders after that. I commonly peak in the -12dB to -6dB range during tracking. But, by the time EQ and compression is done, a fair amount of that just gets naturally absorbed, so I usually end up around -9dB to -6dBFS on the master bus (peak), which is fine since I'm doing my own stuff, so I don't need huge head room for mastering. I fix it in the mix if there's something that needs more than slight tweaking, since I can do it iteratively. And I generally don't have to pull many tracks down that much.

Guitars have so much energy down the in range that you often end up removing. Bass as well, which often gets rolled off on the low end. And a lot of the drum energy gets removed by the time you EQ out the naughty frequencies, or low end energy. So I'm always assuming that a fair amount of it will get lost before it gets to the master bus. I currently don't have any outboard EQ, well just low/high shelf on the pre-amp.

[espasonico]

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

Nobody can predict the actual levels coming from a microphone during the perfect take. There will always be an error.

Many of us have had the experience that it is far better to error on the low side than on the high side with most common digital converters and we simply offer this as advice and not dogma.

( as usual )