Should I move on from my Event 20/20s?

[TechnoCowboy]

Hello. I'm a house and techno producer who has been making music for a while but has recently been hitting some walls with the final product I'm getting. I'm currently all in the box running Logic 8 + Uad+1 card and various plugs. All through my MOTU 828 and Event 20/20s which I have had for ages. Most opinions I've heard about the Events are that they are very colored in the low end. Is this true? I know in the end its best to have a good room and more so know your reference but I seem to keep struggling to get a even/good sound.

Can anyone recommend some good monitors( i don't mind spending some money but nothing too crazy please)? Should I just stick with what I got and get my head around the reference?

Also, i keep hearing about Lnyx (is that a audio interface?). Was thinking about getting the RME firface 400 as people seem to be happy with that.

thanks for any suggestions or comments.
TC

[BouncyJones]

I use an apogee duet with my Event 20/20s (they say Project Studio 6 on them but I think they are 20/20s). It looks like this. I've never been happy with mine, especially in the bass. But, they do sound way better with the apogee duet.

[TechnoCowboy]

I hear ya...


Its like they have too much bass. I know you can turn down the bass in the back but I don't know enough about what that will actually do to feel comfortable with that. It seems like most of my mixes have too much bass. Logic would suggest " well, make a note of that and compensate". I still feel like maybe I'd have a better time mixing/working if I had a cleaner reference.

Any speaker/monitor suggestions folks? Dynaudio?

thx.

[Jeff Carroll]

I've been polling my mastering clients for years as to what monitors they are using. On the really great mixes that come in, I'd say the Event 20/20s get consistently mentioned more than any other monitor. If you are having trouble with your mixes perhaps check for other culprits first, such as positioning of the monitors. --Jeff

[TechnoCowboy]

my monitors are a foot from the wall and about 5 feet apart to make a (hopefully) perfect triangle from my listening position. I've got bass traps in all the corners and HI-freq absorbtion above where I sit + on each side of me + in front of me (on the wall I face).

Thanks for the info, I'm not convinced my mixes suck because of the speakers... I think maybe I need to a/b more music and really learn what to listen for.

I did do some tests and def have some peaks and nulls in my room. I've heard of a package that comes with software + room mics that you can run that will figure out the problem areas and then create a eq template that I guess you leave on the end of your audio chain (on your master output)....but i lost the email that was sent now I can't remember what it was... :(

thx.

[djwaudio]

I have heard excellent mixes from the 20/20s. I think there are speakers that give you more detail or depth, response, etc. of coarse. If you change monitors, be prepared for a long period of adjustment. I would hang on to them if they are working for you.

I have a pair for location recording and had to use them for a period when my B&Ws weren't available. It took a while to get dialed in, but I think I made good masters on them. My only complaint about the 20/20s are the transformer hum.

How are your acoustics? Possibly better money spent in this department...

[UnderTow]

Originally Posted by TechnoCowboy

Its like they have too much bass... ...It seems like most of my mixes have too much bass.

If they give too much bass, your mixes would tend to not have enough bass so I am guessing the issue is something else. Probably the first thing to look at is the speaker placement and acoustics of your studio. (Btw, the EQ on the master output is not a good idea. It won't and can not fix room mode issues in your studio).

That is of course assuming the Events are good enough and don't have inherent problems. (I've never heard them).

Alistair

[TechnoCowboy]

Whats the best way to
A: zone in on problem freqs in your room
B: deal with those freqs?

I found a program called the "Room wizard" but found it difficult to use/figure out. + once you actually were able to get the mic calibrated to take a proper reading it wanted to send out the eq corrections to an outboard eq (which I don't have)..

I know this topic is starting to move into the Ethan Winner (spelling?) acoustic forum territory.... sorry.

thx.

[Riccardo]

Originally Posted by TechnoCowboy

my monitors are a foot from the wall and about 5 feet apart to make a (hopefully) perfect triangle from my listening position. I've got bass traps in all the corners and HI-freq absorbtion above where I sit + on each side of me + in front of me (on the wall I face).

Thanks for the info, I'm not convinced my mixes suck because of the speakers... I think maybe I need to a/b more music and really learn what to listen for.

I did do some tests and def have some peaks and nulls in my room. I've heard of a package that comes with software + room mics that you can run that will figure out the problem areas and then create a eq template that I guess you leave on the end of your audio chain (on your master output)....but i lost the email that was sent now I can't remember what it was... :(

thx.

Probably the IK one
IK Multimedia - ARC System

I have never seen it in action. A friend (mixing engineer) was testing it at home.
If I find the time I'll drop by and ask him if/how it is working for him.

[Riccardo]

Sort out the room first.

Listen, move things around, listen again. Measure if you can.
Once you understand the strengths and weaknesses of your working space look into speakers and then monitoring (converters/interfaces)

[peeder]

Here, play my song:

Acoustics - Hearing your room

I have heard the 20/20bas in one of the world's best (and famous) control rooms, and in that room, they sounded pretty good, but certainly not perfectly balanced. The Event ASP8 is a big step up, I think the Yamaha HS80M would be a nice leap up. I use ADAM S3As plus a subwoofer. For techno, and only for techno, I like the newer Genelec line (8040 at least, better 8050).

[starseed]

My experience with the old model 20/20 BAS, that have been with me in all sorts of rooms and dampened/diffused studio spaces of varying quality, leads me to conclude, now that I have switched to a more analytical and punchy speaker, (the Swedish-made Respons loudspeakers) that they are a little woofy, not very transient-rich, and aim more toward finding the gel in a track, and are thus fairly enjoyable to listen to, but not the best choice for "quality control" use.

The lower mid-range is a treat to mix on the 20/20's, though, and overall balance is decent, their undefined bass is really their weakness, with a smeary midrange a close second.

I will keep mine for less demanding listening, for mastering...I'd say no.

BTW, it sounded as if your "front wall" is too close to the speakers...one cannot subtract the room from the listening experience...just stating the obvious...it is another service I offer, free of charge

[Astronaut39]

Hi,

I am very amazed that professionals like Jeff Carroll are assured with the 20/20.

I use them too and I acknowledge that my room acoustics are maybe not perfect.

But are speakers for circa $ 200 per unit able to sound such great like speakers for $ 1000 or $ 2.000 per unit??

Yesterday I mixed an electronic music song and thought that it sounds great on the 20/20.

On other speakers in my livingroom and in my car (both high quality systems) the mix sound nearly harrowing. The bass totally plashy and too much.

What to do?

Really only checking the room acoustics or changing the monitoring system??

Altogether I think the 20/20 are sounding unbalanced and with a weak bass.

Peace Andreas

[steveschizoid]

Originally Posted by peeder

I think the Yamaha HS80M would be a nice leap up

Greetings Peeder! Update on steveschizoid's acoustic education: learned how to use RoomEQWizard, concluded today that a couple more GIK 244's are needed (a grand total of 8 in the room for mixing) for the ceiling above my workstation. And I may try my hand at building a few. Plus, Glenn suggested I trade my Tannoy System 600's for a pair of HS80M's. You may have just erased any doubts as to what I should do. Ever heard the System 600's? I think they are not bad, but they don't seem to make much sound below 65 Hz - they're rated to 52 Hz I believe. Where I have been monitoring measurements show a pretty uneven bass - a dip between 75 and 100, another serious one at 125. I moved them up a few inches, and it smoothed out, but still showed a major trough from 130-155. No matter where I put them or the bass traps, it dropped off pretty fast below 65.

Technocowboy, I highly suggest you try RoomEQWizard again. It's free, and will help you understand what you are hearing - and what you are not. This is what my room sounds like at the moment:

[peeder]

Yeah I wish I had more experience with the HS80M. I was just very impressed with a short demo I heard. For the dough certainly. It's definitely a "sound"...quite colored, but otoh, very impressive value. Not anything like an NS10 btw.