Flux Solera Dynamics- Am I Braindead, or . . .

[fader8]

OK, I've been looking pretty seriously at this plug-in. At 600 clams, it's elevated above the status of an "impulse buy". I've even allowed it to have a demo slot on my ilok, which I always hate. The way I see it is if it smells like a timebomb, it is a timebomb. I should really get another ilok for this kind of thing. Anyway . . . I'm liking the plug-in. It really does sound good. Like the UAD comps, I'm a bit disappointed there's no external keying available, but I've got the Oxford stuff for that, at least.

Have any of you noticed that some manufacturers seem to have a hard time just telling you how their stuff works? Now, I may be a traditionalist, but if I'm buying a technical product, is it too much to ask to give me a good, solid technical explanation about how a feature works, and to give it a meaningful name that actually relates to what it does?

Enough ranting. I'm trying to grok this Solera thing. First up: Hysteresis. Maybe it's a bad thing that I'm already familiar with hysteresis controls for noise gates and how they work, because it would appear that the word has little relation to what they're doing here. Here's what the manual says. We'll start with their thesis statement:

Hysteresis
Unit: % - Value Range: 0 / 100 - Step: 1
Default Value: 0 %
Allows compressing and de-compressing independently of the sound level but regarding the signal dynamic range, and can be mixed with the standard compression scheme.

Now whoever wrote this must have thought that their own statement was nebulous enough, because they go on to say:

Take a piece of full mixed music, set the ratio to 3-4 and the compression will start working. Now set the threshold of the compressor to the maximum value, the compressor will stop working because the sound level will never reach the threshold. Then increase the Hysteresis and you will see (and hear) the compression working again!!!

OK, I see that. But what I hear is not the 4:1 ratio I set. It sounds a lot less than that. But they continue:

Now decrease or increase the input gain (in Solera or before, as you want) and you will see that the compression will continue to work equally; it's totally, completely independent of the sound level and depends only on Ratio, Knee and sound content.

OK fine. But what is it doing? And why are we calling it hysteresis? At first blush, I'll submit that perhaps the threshold is continuously adapting via some form of amplitude envelope follower. Maybe the hysteresis part is some difference between engage and release levels that it determines somehow from the envelope follower? Kind of a program dependent engage and release?

I know, this is painful. But there's got to be somebody out there who knows how this thing works. If not, hey, we're smart, right? We can figure this thing out. Right . . . right?

I'll stop there before I get on to the other functiona obscura. Anyone care to take a crack at Solera Demystified?

[huub]

Hmm, I agree.. the flux people also make the anguidion compressor (for pyramix) it's a great sounding compressor, but the description is as cryptic as what you're describing...
Just tell me what's exactly happening!! what control does what? precisely please!

[bcgood]

Don't forget Angel's Share.

[Darius van H]

The confusing part to me is how it decides when and when not to compress, if it works independently of level.......obviously it decides this via the knee setting, but where does the knee start and stop?...........the rest of their description is pretty clear to me.

[peeder]

Documentation is the bane of all software.

Why they can't get it into their heads that the product is going to wither on the vine if they are unable to train people to use it I have no idea.

Software development should spend at absolute minimum 10% of their budget on documentation and user training materials and 10% on automated testing. A product that is likely to succeed might spend double that. Write the manual first (like you should set up the automated tests first), and if the manual is unreadable in user tests, scrap the product.

A positive example of software that is documented well, with good free online training videos, is Celemony Melodyne. The manual is in fact a pleasure to read. Obviously the guy in charge is brilliant and is actually in charge.

Some companies have the gall to suggest that they are creating an aftermarket for training materials by poorly documenting their products. Up yours. fuuck I am not going to pay some nerd to sit and explain basic operations to me when you could have done at least a stopgap effort instead.

Don't cry language barrier either. tutt

[Lagerfeldt]

I know this sounds very lame, but do you have the newest version of the plug-in, and what DAW do you use?

Documentation wording aside, I experienced a problem where I did not get what I expected with the Solera+ which I attributed to version trouble.

Also, simply write to Flux they are quite responsive.

[fader8]

Hey Lager!

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt

I know this sounds very lame, but do you have the newest version of the plug-in, and what DAW do you use?

Newest Flux version for Tiger as of yesterday. The plug does seem to be operating fine. I'm just not sure what it's doing!

As you well know, I use Logic 8, but also Sonic Studio and Pro Tools.

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt

Also, simply write to Flux they are quite responsive.

Done. I've politely asked them for further documentation, explaining that if I don't know what a function is doing, I really can't use it. I also mentioned that I'd love to see a sidechain input, of course.

Do you use this plug much?

[fader8]

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt

Also, simply write to Flux they are quite responsive.

Indeed they are. Kudos to Laurent at Flux who has now partially enlightened me about this, but of course that has prompted more questions. When I've got it fully grokked, I'll summarize it here.

[Lagerfeldt]

Originally Posted by fader8

As you well know, I use Logic 8

D'oh, now where did I put my brain?

I only bought the Flux Epure, and shortly after bought a Crane Song STC-8/M and did not feel the need to buy the Solera+.

[Lagerfeldt]

Originally Posted by fader8

Indeed they are. Kudos to Laurent at Flux who has now partially enlightened me about this, but of course that has prompted more questions. When I've got it fully grokked, I'll summarize it here.

I bet you will ;-) Thanks!

[bcgood]

Thanks Holger for turning me on to this plug, I really like it a lot mostly because of Angel's Share and Hysteresis. The funny thing is that I don't even use it to compress.

[cl516]

me too, i could only buy epure because i couldn't figure out hysteresis and angel's share. sometimes i feel maybe it's deliberate, like to weed out the light weights.

[Laurend]

I have to put some light on all your questions.

Our dynamic processors use two different ways to analyze the signal:

- The first one is a regular RMS detection based on le signal level. That's the base of the dynamic processing.
- The second one generates a dynamic value. It doesn't rely any more on the signal level since it's based on the signal complexity.

This dynamic value is used in Solera when using the Angel's Share and the Hysteresis settings:

- Angel's Share is a mix control between the RMS detector and the dynamic detector. It relaxes ratio value depending of the signal complexity.
A lower ratio is applied to complex signal. Angel's Share is a sort of controlled auto ratio.
- Hysteresis is also a mix control between the RMS detector and the dynamic detector. But it affects the threshold value. Hysteresis is a sort of controlled auto threshold.

I hope all is now perfectly clear about Angel's Share and Hysteresis parameters. Forget the maths, open your mind, and trust your ears.

laurent@fluxhome.com

[peeder]

Well, we're starting to get somewhere.

What does "signal complexity" mean? Is this how complex the signal is in the dynamic sense? Or in some other sense (e.g. frequency)? Like an RMS value of the derivative of a signal's level over a specific window?

Originally Posted by Laurend

I have to put some light on all your questions.

Our dynamic processors use two different ways to analyze the signal:

- The first one is a regular RMS detection based on le signal level. That's the base of the dynamic processing.
- The second one generates a dynamic value. It doesn't rely any more on the signal level since it's based on the signal complexity.

This dynamic value is used in Solera when using the Angel's Share and the Hysteresis settings:

- Angel's Share is a mix control between the RMS detector and the dynamic detector. It relaxes ratio value depending of the signal complexity.
A lower ratio is applied to complex signal. Angel's Share is a sort of controlled auto ratio.
- Hysteresis is also a mix control between the RMS detector and the dynamic detector. But it affects the threshold value. Hysteresis is a sort of controlled auto threshold.

I hope all is now perfectly clear about Angel's Share and Hysteresis parameters. Forget the maths, open your mind, and trust your ears.

laurent@fluxhome.com

[Laurend]

I won't give you the math formulas we use to determine this value.

When people use the Auto mode for release on a compressor, nobody cares about how the automatic release value has been obtained. Only one thing is important: Does it work or not? Does it make music or not?

Please don't blame Flux for introducing controlable auto features for threshold (Hysteresis) and ratio (Angel's Share) values.
Now you have all the keys you need to use our processors.

Forget the maths, open your mind, and trust your ears.

[neon]

I really like their GUI, they sound good..as many other Plug ins...a lot of hype and some knobs just do not do anything!! and very expensive in my opinion.

[fader8]

Originally Posted by Laurend

I won't give you the math formulas we use to determine this value.

When people use the Auto mode for release on a compressor, nobody cares about how the automatic release value has been obtained. . . . .

Forget the maths, open your mind, and trust your ears.

Laurent,
I can appreciate your point of view. I don't think anyone cares what the math is either. Auto-release compressors are a much different and very simple thing. We know what that's doing and under what conditions. However, your process is doing significantly more than that. It's not too anal to ask what it's doing and under what conditions it will be doing it.

With that said, after doing some tests I'm getting my head around it now. At least the Hysteresis part so far.

Originally Posted by neon

I really like their GUI, they sound good..as many other Plug ins...a lot of hype and some knobs just do not do anything!! and very expensive in my opinion.

neon,
I think your statements are out of line here. I've just run the Hysteresis function through some paces, and it definitely has a significant effect on the signal. A pretty cool one too, I might add. Also, I think the price is fair if you happen to earn Euros. It is painful when you're paying in presently weak US dollars, (Thank you Mr Bush) and incidently all the more reason to know what you're paying the premium for.

OK, here's how I'm seeing it.
Hysteresis.
With the Hysteresis set to 100%, the manual Threshold setting is completely ignored. Dynamic influence is applied by the processor when the signal content has significant dynamic (transient) changes.

Observing it in practice using the compressor section, gating a sine wave on will cause the compressor to engage. Even though the onset of the sine wave has a fast rise time, its energy is sustained and therefore gets compressed. However, if very fast transients are present, the amount of compression, and its onset, changes.

I posted some notes and pics at my site of some tests I did with a kick sample which help to demonstrate, at least in part, how this works.
Check it out here.

When I get some more time, I'll check out the Angel's Share function. Cheers!

[fader8]

I had a little downtime this morning so I updated my blog on this Solera thing.

Here's a direct link.

[Lagerfeldt]

Great!

I really like the Flux Solera+

If you invest some time in this very flexible (and somewhat complicated) beast it can yield results closer to the width and depth of a great hardware master compressor than any other software compressor.

Probably the first digital compressor that really gets it "right" without being a mere analog emulation.

It compared quite favorable to my Crane Song STC-8/M, just missing the same width and "core" bass and punch - but miles ahead of anything from Waves, Sonnox Oxford, Sonalksis, etc. For mastering at least.

[ShootTheMessenge]

I've been using Solera+ since July; intimidating at first, but good results.

(I love EPure, esp. the buttons for inverse, x2, and /2; all eqs should have an inverse button.)

BTW, New Version of Solera+ !!