SRC from izotope

[Mixocalypse]

iZotope 64-bit SRC
Is this a good option for high quality SRC on the Mac.

ITB Im going to start tracking my sessions at 88.1 or 96k.
So projects that get mastered in-house im going to have to get down to 44.1 in the end.

Im on Mac OS X Tiger (intel)

So im thinking Audio File Engineerings Sample Manager w/ iZotope 64-bit SRC
Barbabatch only runs on PPC Macs
Weiss's Saracon is way to expensive.

[TheBSper]

It's probably the best SRC out there, but don't just take my word for it, look here: SRC Comparisons This site shows a sweep from 0Hz to 20KHz, recorded in 96KHz and converted to 44.1Khz through a ton of different processors. Basically it should look like a single curve up from 0Hz-20Khz, any continuation of the curve (like it's bouncing off the top and coming back down) or discoloration of the background, or other curves, are artifacts of the conversion. Other than the Izotope the r8brain FREE is good, but it's only for PC.

[jayfrigo]

Originally Posted by TheBSper

It's probably the best SRC out there, but don't just take my word for it, look here: SRC Comparisons This site shows a sweep from 0Hz to 20KHz, recorded in 96KHz and converted to 44.1Khz through a ton of different processors. Basically it should look like a single curve up from 0Hz-20Khz, any continuation of the curve (like it's bouncing off the top and coming back down) or discoloration of the background, or other curves, are artifacts of the conversion. Other than the Izotope the r8brain FREE is good, but it's only for PC.

The comparisons are excellent, but don't forget that they don't tell the whole story. Besides listening of course, there is a tradeoff between filter artifacts, definitely including the pre-echo from FIR linear phase filters, and aliasing. A tiny bit of aliasing intentionally left at extremely high frequencies can actually have a positive impact on the sound of the SRC due to reduced filter artifacts. If you just look for the prettiest picture you may miss this important tidbit. This is why you see a touch on the graph of the Weiss Saracon SRC, which is probably the one to beat. The iZotope would be the other one to beat at the moment, at least for software. Many hardware synchronous and asynchronous SRCs are not included in the tests, so this is another area that leaves some open space for additional inquiry.

The version of the iZotope SRC that comes in the RX suite of software actually gives you control over several parameters including the filter steepness and FIR vs. IIR so that you can experiment with these tradeoffs yourself and fine tune it to the particular program material in question, and your tastes.

[MattGray]

Originally Posted by jayfrigo

The version of the iZotope SRC that comes in the RX suite of software actually gives you control over several parameters including the filter steepness and FIR vs. IIR so that you can experiment with these tradeoffs yourself and fine tune it to the particular program material in question, and your tastes.

All good points Jay, WaveEditor 1.3 also has all the advanced settings for the iZotope 64bit SRC (Sample Manager only has a quality slider). WaveEditor 1.3 is a lot cheaper than iZotope RX if all you need is the SRC.

Also in the SRC graphs at Infinite Systems, there is 2 high-end hardware units listed in the results the Weiss SFC-2 & Z-Sys z-3 neither of which seem as artifact free as the best software units, which I found interesting. Obviously the benefit of hardware is real time up & down conversion.

Matt

[Mixocalypse]

Thanks for the replies guys.

Matt, do you know what the SRC preset is set to in Sample Editor? And what exactly is the "quality" slide equating too? What fixed preset... i guess?

[Matthew Foust]

Originally Posted by StaticStudios

Thanks for the replies guys.

Matt, do you know what the SRC preset is set to in Sample Editor? And what exactly is the "quality" slide equating too? What fixed preset... i guess?

Yes, the slider matches the settings in the attached image. We will be providing some specifics in the docs and in our Knowledge Books shortly.

Also, Sample Manager 3.2.0 will ship with updated Convert Sample Rate and Convert Bit Range actions that will include advanced options for the 64-bit SRC and MBIT+ Dither.

[livingstone]

Hi Matthew,

nice to have you here,
what is the effect on the sound of these advenced options ?
how is it predictable without having to process a file the listen ... change process ... liten ...
as i suppose it can not be listened in real time

[Matthew Foust]

Originally Posted by livingstone

Hi Matthew,

nice to have you here,
what is the effect on the sound of these advenced options ?
how is it predictable without having to process a file the listen ... change process ... liten ...
as i suppose it can not be listened in real time

We're working with iZotope on our documentation with regard to the advanced settings. This is a good reminder to get it done. I'll post a Knowledge Book article on our site shortly and post the link here.

You are correct that it is not a real-time process. It can be at lower quality settings (how it is implemented in our output converter preferences).

[Jerry Tubb]

Originally Posted by Matthew Foust

Sample Manager 3.2.0 will ship with updated Convert Sample Rate and Convert Bit Range actions that will include advanced options for the 64-bit SRC and MBIT+ Dither.

Lookin' and Soundin' good Matthew.

I'm very pleased with the results we're getting from SM 3.1.2.

I just leave the slider set to the Highest quality setting... sounds great.

I haven't opened BarbaBatch once since buying Sample Manager.

In fact I've taken their icon off my Dock.

Be looking forward to trying the new options in 3.2.0,

Although I suspect I'll still use the same Highest quality setting.

JT

[Mixocalypse]

Matthew,

thats all great info.. and just what I wanted to hear.. Ill be picking up SM soon. Can't wait for the advanced options in 3.2 that will be great. Also thanks for the quick email reply as-well.

As I venture into 96k and back down to 44.1k..... tastefully i hope

[Matthew Foust]

Here is the link I promised:

Advanced Options for iZotope 64-bit SRC

[fenderbender.]

Another +1 for SampleManager.

Your stuff is great! And cheap! Wow!

[bob katz]

Originally Posted by Matthew Foust

Here is the link I promised:

Advanced Options for iZotope 64-bit SRC

Most impressive, Matthew. Now someone should write a book on their findings with various types of material and Izotope SRC! Ultimately it's what kind of compromise you want as there is always a loss going from higher to lower rate. And in addition, what kind of dither you choose to go to 16 bit has to enter in the equation!

BK

[Matthew Foust]

Originally Posted by bob katz

Most impressive, Matthew. Now someone should write a book on their findings with various types of material and Izotope SRC! Ultimately it's what kind of compromise you want as there is always a loss going from higher to lower rate. And in addition, what kind of dither you choose to go to 16 bit has to enter in the equation!

BK

Agreed. We'd love to add more to the Dither and SRC section of our support site that covers the musical impact of the processes. Please send suggestions!

[JoeyM]

On the PC side, I'm freakin'.

Used to be, I'd dither in Wavelab with UV-HR (and various, but settled in on UV for the longest time), which seemed like one-step to happy.

Now after a lot of textual research I'm convinced, maybe obsessed, that the iZotope 64-bit/MBIT processes included in Sound Forge 10 may well be superior.

Tonight: surprise surprise, there's two different steps (I guess) to doing that within Sound Forge, you go to:

1. Process > Bit Depth > "iZotope MBIT+ Dither" for the bit reduction, and

2. Process > Resample > iZotope 64-bit SRC for samplerate change.


Before this (and since the ADAT days), I'd assumed the final operation was unified or one in the same (doh), but this just screws my world up.

Wondering if there's an easier way to properly converge both iZotope processes on the PC side? Or step one, step 2?

Kind thanks in advance

[Key]

The bit reduction and the SRC always has to be done in separate steps. The only time I think it wouldn't would be with a digital>analog>digital conversion. I really don't know about those asynchronous converters though.

What is the general consensus on the order in which you do them? SRC first then Reduction?

[lostintime]

Secret Rabbit Code (aka libsamplerate) is one of the highest quality SRCs in existence since it reached version 0.1.3. You can get version 0.1.7 of it for free in the form of SRCdrop 0.6.3 from Rarewares.

[mixerguy]

the best SRC i have heard is, by far... one DAW digitally into a Rosetta 200 (for SRC, dither, bit reduction, etc) .... then digitally into a 2nd DAW. (at the desired sample rate)

sounds WAY better than any software SRC i have ever heard.

[Alexey Lukin]

Originally Posted by JoeyM

Tonight: surprise surprise, there's two different steps (I guess) to doing that within Sound Forge, you go to:

1. Process > Bit Depth > "iZotope MBIT+ Dither" for the bit reduction, and

2. Process > Resample > iZotope 64-bit SRC for samplerate change.

Correct order is the opposite:
1. SRC,
2. Bit depth reduction.

Otherwise you'll get truncation distortion when SRC is performed at the reduced bit depth.

[Kees de Visser]

Originally Posted by Matthew Foust

Also, Sample Manager 3.2.0 will ship with updated Convert Sample Rate and Convert Bit Range actions that will include advanced options for the 64-bit SRC and MBIT+ Dither.

Hi Matthew,
it's been almost 2 years since you posted this and Sample Manager still doesn't have the advanced iZotope SRC and dither options. Has it been dropped from the todo list ?

[Matthew Foust]

Originally Posted by Kees de Visser

Hi Matthew,
it's been almost 2 years since you posted this and Sample Manager still doesn't have the advanced iZotope SRC and dither options. Has it been dropped from the todo list ?

It's coming for sure. We've completely restructured the app so that actions are now plug-ins. We'll be announcing shortly the "Sample Manager Custom Shop." Folks who have complex, proprietary workflows can now contract us to write custom advanced actions. We'll also be offering more advanced actions such as the custom settings for the 64-bit SRC and MBIT+ dither and a few other goodies as well.

[Tarekith]

Originally Posted by Matthew Foust

We've completely restructured the app so that actions are now plug-ins.

Thank you thank you thank you! This was by far the most annoying thing about the SRC and dithering in WE. You just saved me a ton of time.

[JoeyM]

@ jayfrigo, thanks a LOT for the best explanation of pre-ringing and aliasing I've ever heard. It's the one that sticks in my mind finally

Originally Posted by lostintime

Secret Rabbit Code (aka libsamplerate) is one of the highest quality SRCs in existence since it reached version 0.1.3. You can get version 0.1.7 of it for free in the form of SRCdrop 0.6.3 from Rarewares.

Thanks, I found it and it looks really neat. You're not kidding, one of the very best impulse and sweep characteristics at SRC Comparisons
Thanks much!

Originally Posted by Alexey Lukin

Correct order is the opposite:
1. SRC,
2. Bit depth reduction.

Otherwise you'll get truncation distortion when SRC is performed at the reduced bit depth.

I remember you helping me before Alexey, and again thanks a million -


And Matthew, I'll be on the lookout for your stuff in the near future, as I have a underused Mac here

To everyone, my most sincere New Years to 'yall

[Adebar]

Originally Posted by jayfrigo

The comparisons are excellent, but don't forget that they don't tell the whole story. Besides listening of course, there is a tradeoff between filter artifacts, definitely including the pre-echo from FIR linear phase filters, and aliasing. A tiny bit of aliasing intentionally left at extremely high frequencies can actually have a positive impact on the sound of the SRC due to reduced filter artifacts. If you just look for the prettiest picture you may miss this important tidbit. This is why you see a touch on the graph of the Weiss Saracon SRC, which is probably the one to beat. The iZotope would be the other one to beat at the moment, at least for software. Many hardware synchronous and asynchronous SRCs are not included in the tests, so this is another area that leaves some open space for additional inquiry.

I totally agree.

The SRC of the old Sonic Solutions Classic and HD have been considered as one of the best SRCs and some still think they still are.

The SRC of Soundblades background manager seems to be in this tradition. I regard it as one of the best. And if you take a look at the graphs the seem to look bad.

And as stated above: "A tiny bit of aliasing intentionally left at extremely high frequencies can actually have a positive impact on the sound of the SRC due to reduced filter artifacts."

I agree. Don´t look at nice graphs - just listen.

[Table Of Tone]

Originally Posted by Matthew Foust

Here is the link I promised:

Advanced Options for iZotope 64-bit SRC

Wave Editor is a great little thing to have on a mac!

I really think that you need to be able to completely disable the output converter when trying to playback in Wave Editor.
I first noticed this when I was suddenly hearing a slight distortion on something that I knew, did not distort.
I norrowed it down to the SRC on the output.
I had a couple D to A's showing clip incidents of 0.3db or more.
Even at 44.1k, that output converter is still in there doing something.

This problem only affects playback though.
All file management etc, is fine on it!

[Audiop]

I have been looking for a SRC and dither solution for Mac and Sample Manager seems like a great solution.

What formats/wordlengths does SM accept? Fixed/float?


/Peter

[jayfrigo]

Originally Posted by Audiop

I have been looking for a SRC and dither solution for Mac and Sample Manager seems like a great solution.

What formats/wordlengths does SM accept? Fixed/float?


/Peter

I'll let Matthew give you the details, or you can check their website, but the brief answer is that it does handle both float and fixed, and it's a great "Swiss army knife" for audio on Mac. The price is very reasonable and it's quite handy to have around.

[spicemix]

I am thrilled to learn of improvements on the way for Audiofile Sample Manager!

[Audiop]

Originally Posted by jayfrigo

I'll let Matthew give you the details, or you can check their website, but the brief answer is that it does handle both float and fixed, and it's a great "Swiss army knife" for audio on Mac. The price is very reasonable and it's quite handy to have around.

Thanks Jay. I could not find the info on the website so I'll wait for input from Matthew.

At the moment I can export 24bit fixed or 32/64bit float from my DAW.


/Peter

[Audiop]

I downloaded the trial version of Sample Manager and imported a 64 bit float file which I managed to SRC and dither without complains from the software.

Seems it accepts 24/32/64 bit files fixed or float and I'm buying a license.



/Peter