Negative track time

Ronski · 5th March 2008

Is it possible to put "hidden" audio before the first track, audible only if someone rewinds track before zero? Is there any problems that might arise?

pelliott · 5th March 2008

Yes it is possible and it's been done a whole bunch of times. Most mastering pro's on here probably do it fairly regularly. I haven't heard of any issues on the discs I've done ... or any others for that matter.

ed littman · 5th March 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronski

Is it possible to put "hidden" audio before the first track, audible only if someone rewinds track before zero? Is there any problems that might arise?

Some CD players won't read it.
Ed

pelliott · 5th March 2008

Meaning that the player won't allow you to rewind to hear the track?

ed littman · 5th March 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelliott

Meaning that the player won't allow you to rewind to hear the track?

Correct

Ronski · 5th March 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by ed littman

Correct

But the basic CD will play normally, just the hidden part is unreadable by some players?

Should I inform the CD pressing plant about this subject, or can I just send the master?

pelliott · 5th March 2008

Our plant doesn't necessarily need to be informed beforehand. Don't know about others.

finetuner · 5th March 2008

I've never had to inform the plants either and have had no problems.
Do make sure that you label the master clearly (on the disc, inlay and PQ list) though !

Peter van't Riet
FineTune Mastering

Trakworx · 16th June 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelliott

Yes it is possible and it's been done a whole bunch of times. Most mastering pro's on here probably do it fairly regularly. I haven't heard of any issues on the discs I've done ... or any others for that matter.

How is this done????

Adam Dempsey · 17th June 2008

Audio is placed between Index 0 and Index 1.
Only some DAW's/software will permit this, such as SADiE 5 and equivalents, possibly Wavelab.. I can't recall. And I wouldn't do it for a disc totalling 78'29" or greater, to be safe.
Communication with the plant when necessary comes with the ME's job. thumbsup

Trakworx · 17th June 2008

Thanks. Interesting. I thought Redbook Standard required a pre-gap of 2 to 3 seconds before track 1 of an audio CD. 'Read that in the Masterlist CD manual long ago. Anyone know a way to do this with Jam or a similar program for Mac?

jdg · 17th June 2008

not on OSX. its not possible with the apple disc burning API (which everyone uses (unless there is some rouge cd burning app out their that has their own interface for the hardware of the cdr))

Bob Loblaw · 18th June 2008

Quote:

I thought Redbook Standard required a pre-gap of 2 to 3 seconds before track 1 of an audio CD.

I can't verfy this statement right now but:
I believe the metadata two second gap goes before the first audio on the disk; which in this case is not the first track. On redbk that is...

5th March 2008	#1
Ronski Gear maniac Joined: May 2007 Location: Finland Posts: 165 Thread Starter	Negative track time Is it possible to put "hidden" audio before the first track, audible only if someone rewinds track before zero? Is there any problems that might arise?

17th June 2008	#10
Adam Dempsey Mastering Engineer Joined: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne - Australia's music capital. Posts: 1,723 Verified Member	Audio is placed between Index 0 and Index 1. Only some DAW's/software will permit this, such as SADiE 5 and equivalents, possibly Wavelab.. I can't recall. And I wouldn't do it for a disc totalling 78'29" or greater, to be safe. Communication with the plant when necessary comes with the ME's job. thumbsup __________________ Adam Jack the Bear's Deluxe Mastering facebook \| twitter \| myspace Is adding presence the same as subtracting absence?

17th June 2008	#12
jdg Lives for gear Joined: Aug 2005 Location: seattle, WA Posts: 2,540 Verified Member	not on OSX. its not possible with the apple disc burning API (which everyone uses (unless there is some rouge cd burning app out their that has their own interface for the hardware of the cdr)) __________________ nothing helps "suck", not even analog panicStudios - mastering in seattle

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5th March 2008	#2
pelliott Gear maniac Joined: Feb 2007 Posts: 202	Yes it is possible and it's been done a whole bunch of times. Most mastering pro's on here probably do it fairly regularly. I haven't heard of any issues on the discs I've done ... or any others for that matter.

5th March 2008	#8
finetuner Lives for gear Joined: Jan 2007 Location: Netherlands Posts: 872	I've never had to inform the plants either and have had no problems. Do make sure that you label the master clearly (on the disc, inlay and PQ list) though ! Peter van't Riet FineTune Mastering

17th June 2008	#11
Trakworx Gear Whisperer Joined: Apr 2008 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 1,831 Verified Member 3 Reviews written	Thanks. Interesting. I thought Redbook Standard required a pre-gap of 2 to 3 seconds before track 1 of an audio CD. 'Read that in the Masterlist CD manual long ago. Anyone know a way to do this with Jam or a similar program for Mac?