re-open a ddp file on a mac?

[cemski]

Hello!
Anybody heard or seen a program that can re-open and maybe edit a ddp file (wave editor & mac here!)?
wouldn't this be a superb archiving format?!

[MarkRB]

Haha funny you should say that, I am talking with someone that wants to archive his entire (not insignificant) catalogue as DDPs.

I haven't found anything cheap. I use Pyramix which can import DDP's but it is flaky at best often not bringing in all the PQ data and ISRC codes.
It is still a fairly new format but is getting used more and more so hopefully a cheap reliable platform will become available soon, if it isn't already (?)

[Cellotron]

Sonic Studio SoundBlade can do load back of DDP on Mac - Sonic Studio :: Digital Audio Mastering and Authoring Tools for PCM, DSD&SACD

imo DDP makes a very poor archival format compared to just using the AES/NARAS recommendations of using non-proprietary wav files as there simply aren't that many devices or applications that can open them and that you are introducing an additional proprietary layer of software over the ability to extract the contained audio.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[cemski]

would just be very good to hand out a format to the customer that is more close to a master than an "audio cd"?! (beside the usual single track files)

[MarkRB]

Originally Posted by cemski

would just be very good to hand out a format to the customer that is more close to a master than an "audio cd"?! (beside the usual single track files)

If you can write all the PQ stuff and codes etc onto a good quality disc with a good quality drive then just call it a PMCD and be done.
Most manufacturers still accept them. I find it strange that some don't but I can understand their preference for an easily verifiable format like DDP.

[cemski]

hey mark!
here in germany its the opposite way. most pressing plants want pmcd and not ddp...

Originally Posted by MarkRB

If you can write all the PQ stuff and codes etc onto a good quality disc with a good quality drive then just call it a PMCD and be done.
Most manufacturers still accept them. I find it strange that some don't but I can understand their preference for an easily verifiable format like DDP.

[bkuijt]

Originally Posted by MarkRB

Haha funny you should say that, I am talking with someone that wants to archive his entire (not insignificant) catalogue as DDPs.

I haven't found anything cheap. I use Pyramix which can import DDP's but it is flaky at best often not bringing in all the PQ data and ISRC codes.
It is still a fairly new format but is getting used more and more so hopefully a cheap reliable platform will become available soon, if it isn't already (?)

Which version of Pyramix are you using? I thought that with version 5 and now 6 this had improved.
I'm using both Pyramix with hardware and native. Haven't had problems importing DDP's on my native version 5 software.

DDP has been around for a while but I thought it is or was licensing costs that make this and expensive format. And previously it was written to exabyte which added to the cost as well.
But maybe that's changed looking at the price of Wave Editor...

[Thor]

DDP on the Mac?

Both PMCD and soundBlade will open them, with the DDP loadback option. Works as advertized.

I think DDP is ok for archiving, as the audio is intact (albeit at 16/44) as one contiguous file, including spaces and all. The additional files include such info as EAN, ISRC, and start/end marks.

We usually archive all projects at a higher (working) resolution, as well as the project files and final delivery DDP.

From what I understand, at least one of the majors has settled on DDP for internal catalogue masters, which are then delivered to whatever format is required (CD, download, ringtone, whatever).

Hope this helps.
Thor

[MarkRB]

Originally Posted by bkuijt

Which version of Pyramix are you using? I thought that with version 5 and now 6 this had improved.
I'm using both Pyramix with hardware and native. Haven't had problems importing DDP's on my native version 5 software.

DDP has been around for a while but I thought it is or was licensing costs that make this and expensive format. And previously it was written to exabyte which added to the cost as well.
But maybe that's changed looking at the price of Wave Editor...

v5.1 at the moment (Mykernos (sp?) card system). It will open DDPs we make no problem but doesn't seem to like other peoples. I love it as a DAW/Mastering system once you get used to the quirks. Only going to get more popular with Sadie going.

[Sequoia Berlin]

For audio preservation formats, please refer to this URL of a quite respectible institution:

Digital Preservation (Library of Congress)

DDP isn't among the suggested formats. Go figure?!?

DDP isn't a preservation format altogether. Besides that, it is a closed format.

You will get similar statements from those institutions:

www.iasa-web.org
PrestoSpace

PCM, 24bit@48kHz is the standard. 16bit@44,1 is 'ok' for CD Audio, of course. As a container format, BWF is the one best established. Why choose anything different?

Regards,

Sebastian

[cemski]

Hello Sebastian!
The initial question was not about single files. i dont think you can store "global cd informations (=pq code)" onto a bwf?!?
but thanks for the great infos! The articles about preservation formats will be my breakfast lecture.

greetings,
cem

Originally Posted by Sequoia Berlin

PCM, 24bit@48kHz is the standard. 16bit@44,1 is 'ok' for CD Audio, of course. As a container format, BWF is the one best established. Why choose anything different?

Regards,

Sebastian

[Whitecat]

ddp loadback is a planned feature of audiofile's wave editor 1.4 I think.

The current v1.3 can currently export to ddp.

[Cellotron]

For archiving CD-R masters I'm a very big supporter of Cue Sheets as all subcodes and index layouts are kept in a single very small ascii file that is editable with any text editor - and these can be linked to either a single or multiple wav files - and there are quite a good number of applications - including excellently coded freeware such as Exact Audio Copy - that can load them and burn CD-R masters identical to the original with them.

So - placing a cue sheet .cue file along with 16bit/44.1kHz wav files on a data CD-R, DVD-R, hard drive or flash drive to me makes much more sense than storing them as DDP - which obviously requires more expensive and less common software to open and which has some compatibility problems between softwares.

More info on cue sheets is at Cue sheet - MediaCoderWiki
& CueSharp - cue sheet specification • wyDay

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[cemski]

good solution, but not for mac :(
anyway...........

Originally Posted by Cellotron

For archiving CD-R masters I'm a very big supporter of Cue Sheets as all subcodes and index layouts are kept in a single very small ascii file that is editable with any text editor - and these can be linked to either a single or multiple wav files - and there are quite a good number of applications - including excellently coded freeware such as Exact Audio Copy - that can load them and burn CD-R masters identical to the original with them.

So - placing a cue sheet .cue file along with 16bit/44.1kHz wav files on a data CD-R, DVD-R, hard drive or flash drive to me makes much more sense than storing them as DDP - which obviously requires more expensive and less common software to open and which has some compatibility problems between softwares.

More info on cue sheets is at Cue sheet - MediaCoderWiki
& CueSharp - cue sheet specification • wyDay

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[Cellotron]

Originally Posted by cemski

good solution, but not for mac :(
anyway...........

afaik the latest versions of Toast can burn from cue files.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[Sequoia Berlin]

Originally Posted by cemski

Hello Sebastian!
The initial question was not about single files. i dont think you can store "global cd informations (=pq code)" onto a bwf?!?
but thanks for the great infos! The articles about preservation formats will be my breakfast lecture.

greetings,
cem

Hi Cem,

the whole thing is a little off topic, I know. Sorry for that.

Of course, there are cases where you want to preserve things like PQ information over a sustained period of time. That is however beyond the scope of archiving, as the perspective of digital archive objects is actually to overcome physical carriers altogether, and PQ codes are definetly solely relaing to optical carriers. Th PQ code itslef becomes obsolete in the moment of digitisation.

You can of course store the structural metadata that the PQ code carries in the BWF Cue Sheet if you wish. But even that is pretty lame as an archiving practise: Usually, it is good practise to store all metadata separate from the essences for easier retrievability in relational form, i.e. a database or an XML file.

I can only say it again: using closed formats such as DDP for archiving should be avoided in any case.
Using DDP as a kind of backup for the actual glass master is good practise, for sure, because that scenario includes the advantages and backdraws of having the whole chain (Laserbeamer with ingest software interface that naturally can read DDP) must be available in that case anyhow.

Regards
Sebastian

[cemski]

Hello Sebastian!
I see... So the best would be to change to Cassette for archiving i suggest
Have a nice week!

Cem

[Adebar]

Originally Posted by cemski

Hello!
Anybody heard or seen a program that can re-open and maybe edit a ddp file (wave editor & mac here!)?
wouldn't this be a superb archiving format?!

Sonic Studio PreMaster CD with DDP open option is really good for that.

For archiving as a replication master it is good.
But for archiving the digital audio files i just take the origin 24 bit files as BWF.

[Matthew Foust]

Originally Posted by terminal3

ddp loadback is a planned feature of audiofile's wave editor 1.4 I think.

The current v1.3 can currently export to ddp.

This is correct. Load-back is currently working in 1.4.0 beta 1 which is currently being seeded to a small number of beta testers. If you'd like to give it a try, please send me a PM or contact us at support@audiofile-engineering.com.

[tobymusic]

You can actually play back a DDP file with Snapper (from audioease.com), nice audio utility anyways for the Mac. It also shows the index markers, I'm just not sure how accurate these are. Playing back works fine for sure!

Toby

[MAzevedo]

DDP is a part of our general workflow, but I would not want it for my only archive. As has been said here several times, the format is not well-supported enough for me to feel good about going back to it in 10-20-30 years. A BWF file of the entire album with all gaps and fades and a TXT cue sheet with full PQ data, including ISRC and CD-TEXT it what I would do for long-term backup. Any competent ME could build you a new master with those two files, and both can be opened by any DAW and text editor.