Sonnox Inflator vs Limiter

[Hossegor]

Hi,


i would like to buy me a decent software limiter to make my demos a little louder and maybe give them a little more punch. I have heard many good things about the Sonnox plug ins, so i want to get one of the 2.
Which one would be the right one for my needs ? At the moment i am using Vintage Warmer for punch and limiting. The Inflator seems to be very good, i have not heard that much about the Sonnox limiter..

Thanx

[Lagerfeldt]

The Inflator and Limiter are two completely different things.

The limiter is... a limiter, with an enhance function. And one of the best on the market with an interesting and very useful way of achieving punch that separates it from most other limiters.

The Inflator is time constant, more like an exciter or harmonic enhancer. Using the curve slider you can change some things that relate to dynamic perception but it's in no way a limiter. At moderate settings (curve around 0) and 15-20% effect it can add a little magic and loudness (via psychoacoustics) to a dull mix without messing things up like most "warmers".

I don't think you should get only one of them, I think you NEED them both :-)

[Hossegor]

i was thinking about that too, after all they do give 20% discount if you get both.

[Bob Yordan]

Both plugs are great.

[electro]

Sonnox Inflator or UAD Precision Maximizer?

[Lagerfeldt]

The Precision Maximizer is a little less pronounced in the 2 - 4 kHz area compared to the Inflator, which is a matter of taste.

You can try out the Inflator if you have an iLok.

[ironbelly]

Which do you like first in the chain, the Limiter or the Inflator? Reasons?

[blim]

I find that I use the Inflator most often on songs that are less rhythmically intense (e.g., ballads, acoustic instrumentals). It doesn't seem to do as well on the hard rock or hip hop stuff. I still highly recommend it, though -- when it works, it can work really well. I'm looking into the Sonnox Limiter (not terribly satisfied with the Waves L3).

[Lagerfeldt]

Paul Frindle's very accurate description (naturally):

-
Generally putting the inflator after the limiter (with the limiter's enhance wound up) will not increase the loudness very much before it starts to sound nasty. The reason for this is that the inflator makes the action of the enhancer more obvious.

Putting the inflator before the limiter is more successful in producing a grungy sheen to the programme, but will not really make it sound that much louder. SO the best settings for the inflator in this case is with the curve set to in the range from -ve to half way.

[Lagerfeldt]

Originally Posted by blim

I'm looking into the Sonnox Limiter (not terribly satisfied with the Waves L3).

Yeah, the L3 is pretty bad.

Check out Sonnox Oxford Limiter, Flux Pure Limiter or perhaps the Ozone limiter.

[James Meeker]

I always liked the Massey Limiter.

Be careful with the Inflator, too much on the mix buss can wash out the mids with harmonics.

[ironbelly]

I have the demos of both the Sonnox Inflator and Limiter here and I'm comparing them to Ozone 3, and I gotta say, although of course the Sonnox stuff sounds great, it seems like I can get nearly if not just as good a sound with the Ozone stuff (with a little more tweaking). Ozone is 1/3 the price and has so many more functions. Am I crazy? Your thoughts... ?

[diogo_c]

I recently had a chance to try the new L3s and they sounded much better, specially the new L3-16.

Is it my impression or someone had the same feelings?

[fenderbender.]

Just try the demos, dude: Sonnox Oxford Plugins

I like the Inflator right before the limiter on heavy rocky stuff. It seems to smooth out the distortion from the A/D and can add quite a bit of level (so that you don't need to hit the A/D as hard). And at this stage it can really be controlled via the "Curve" control.

If you're having a tough time getting the level you want go for the limiter. It's great. But if you have no problem getting your levels where you want them without much compromise the limiter won't do much. At least, not nearly as much as the Inflator.

In regards to the Ozone comment, I think if you're using all plug-ins, or doing mastering at an amateur or semi-pro. level, the iZotope Ozone would be the best bargain for you. But as a link in your chain the Ozone is more like a bunch of cheap tools whereas the Sonnox stuff is very, very nice. Also, it'll keep its value whereas the resell on Ozone is...well...you can guess... And Ozone can't touch the Inflator. No contest, there.

Good luck, and remember... Try the demos, dude!

[Lagerfeldt]

Originally Posted by ironbelly

I have the demos of both the Sonnox Inflator and Limiter here and I'm comparing them to Ozone 3, and I gotta say, although of course the Sonnox stuff sounds great, it seems like I can get nearly if not just as good a sound with the Ozone stuff (with a little more tweaking). Ozone is 1/3 the price and has so many more functions. Am I crazy? Your thoughts... ?

I think you need to experiment a bit more with the Limiter. Try switching off autogain, setting a longer attack and shorter release, push the enhance a bit, see what happens and play around to better understand the parameters.

I think it's foolish to pursue the idea of just 1 perfect limiter. To my ears both the Sonnox Oxford Limiter, the Flux Pure Limiter and Ozone Limiter are great and each sound different.

[Bob Yordan]

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt

I think you need to experiment a bit more with the Limiter. Try switching off autogain, setting a longer attack and shorter release, push the enhance a bit, see what happens and play around to better understand the parameters.

I think it's foolish to pursue the idea of just 1 perfect limiter. To my ears both the Sonnox Oxford Limiter, the Flux Pure Limiter and Ozone Limiter are great and each sound different.

[ironbelly]

thanks lagerfeldt and bob and everyone for sharing your experiences. i will definitely mess around a bit more with these demos in the next few days trying out the suggestions. it's so cool to have a little online group of intelligent good hearted audio buddies.

[yareck]

Limiter not bad, but I've found Inflator more useful... I know that they are different animals though. Limiter seems to be a little bit softer and adds some more "plugin" character to me. Inflator is closer to the good AD clipping, can push it even more forward which is nice in certain cases...

[SonOfSteven]

I use both all the time. I try'd a few different limiters and i thought the sonox 1 was the best, I find that the inflator kind of tightens things up a bit as well.
great plugins.

regards,

[miqer]

The combination works to make things very very loud.

m.

[JPeters86]

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt

Yeah, the L3 is pretty bad.

I like the L3-16 though. Having very good results with it.

[Lagerfeldt]

Originally Posted by yareck

Inflator is closer to the good AD clipping, can push it even more forward which is nice in certain cases...

Actually not. I've written a short explanation of what the Inflator is and does above.

[aivoryuk]

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt

Actually not. I've written a short explanation of what the Inflator is and does above.

Yeah I would agree with that the Inflator still sounds like ITB clipping, A/D clipping sound very different to my ears, not as harsh sounding

[defjamm]

i like the limiter more than the inflator. the inflator sounds harsher compared to the limiter. i don't like most other plug-in limiters, they are only usable in combination with clipping for transient-heavy music imo. with the sonnox limiter i don't have to use clipping. it retains transients more than most other limiters, but sounds less harsh than itb-clipping or clippers.

maybe you wait a little, because sonalksis is working on a limiter right now which will be releases in the next few months. this limiter is supposed to emulate analogue clipping (no aliasing).

[Lagerfeldt]

Originally Posted by aivoryuk

Yeah I would agree with that the Inflator still sounds like ITB clipping, A/D clipping sound very different to my ears, not as harsh sounding

Do you really think it sounds anything like clipping? Technically I would think that's very inaccurate.

To me it sounds more like low level/upward compression or multing - but of course there is no time factor involved as the Inflator is a steady signal processor.

Perhaps it could more accurately be described as psychoacoustically optimized equalizing/distortion unit.

[aivoryuk]

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt

Do you really think it sounds anything like clipping? Technically I would think that's very inaccurate.

To me it sounds more like low level/upward compression or multing - but of course there is no time factor involved as the Inflator is a steady signal processor.

Perhaps it could more accurately be described as psychoacoustically optimized equalizing/distortion unit.

depends on the way you use i think.
to me it doesn't sound like low level/upward compression

[Lagerfeldt]

I'd love to hear Paul's explanation here. Someone find him and PM him :-)

[Bob Yordan]

Hiya

As I have understood it, about the Inflator, it does not affect the dynamics that much, it enhances via some 'distortion algotitms' (as pointed out pervious in this thread), the mix to make it sound louder. The basic concept of it's design is not to work eg like a limiter or compressor.

I think of it more like some kind of saturation effect. But not being a tape saturation effect.

[diggo]

The Sonnox Limiter _includes_ Inflator, albeit in slightly different form.
The Enhance fader is a version of the Inflator algorithm. This is how the Limiter avoids intersample overs.
Inflator is a harmonic generator which generates odd harmonics and functions as a clipper in appropriate circumstances.

When the SAFE button is engaged in the Limiter, it is pretty much the same result as if the Enhance (ie Inflator) function is set to 24.1%. The GUI doesnt show this (an oversight, in my opinion). Before the native version was released, I asked the guy at Sonnox who inherited the code from Paul Frindle to have the Enhance fader re-position accordingly when SAFE is selected, but it hasnt been done yet....and maybe that's because the Enhance slider still adds to the signal if engaged (ie if you set the Enhance to 24.1% when SAFE is ticked, this is roughly the same as if the Enhance slider was set to 48.2% without SAFE being engaged)

The harmonics generated by the Enhance slider are exactly the same as those generated by SAFE or by the standalone Inflator. The only difference is the amplitude of the harmonics, although the standalone Inflator has extra parameters which can be adjusted to give different flavours.

Cheers,

Sean

[Paul Frindle]

Originally Posted by diggo

The Sonnox Limiter _includes_ Inflator, albeit in slightly different form.
The Enhance fader is a version of the Inflator algorithm. This is how the Limiter avoids intersample overs.
Inflator is a harmonic generator which generates odd harmonics and functions as a clipper in appropriate circumstances.

When the SAFE button is engaged in the Limiter, it is pretty much the same result as if the Enhance (ie Inflator) function is set to 24.1%. The GUI doesnt show this (an oversight, in my opinion). Before the native version was released, I asked the guy at Sonnox who inherited the code from Paul Frindle to have the Enhance fader re-position accordingly when SAFE is selected, but it hasnt been done yet....and maybe that's because the Enhance slider still adds to the signal if engaged (ie if you set the Enhance to 24.1% when SAFE is ticked, this is roughly the same as if the Enhance slider was set to 48.2% without SAFE being engaged)

The harmonics generated by the Enhance slider are exactly the same as those generated by SAFE or by the standalone Inflator. The only difference is the amplitude of the harmonics, although the standalone Inflator has extra parameters which can be adjusted to give different flavours.


Cheers,

Sean

No this is quite wrong - sorry to say it yet again. I designed both these plugs and unless they have changed them(!) you need both - they are not in the least interchangeable. There is nothing 'slight' about the differences between them - in fact they have virtually nothing in common what so ever.

They cannot provide you with an enhancer setting that matches the inflator - because it's not possible.

The enhance of the limiter will not make the same sound as the inflator under any setting. To prove this just get the Pro Tools oscillator at low freq, stick it into both and listen to it. The inflator causes harmonics, the limiter enhance does not.

I dunno how many times I will need to keep repeating this stuff :-(

Perhaps GS should collate all the scores of posts where I have had to repeat this into a 'sticky' and put it on top of the forums page? LOL