using a freq analzyer while mastering hip hop

[termtables]

I'm just starting to try and master my tracks and need a little direction. When I open up the frequency analyzer should all the freq be pretty much even? I would imagine that the file is going to have more lowend just because of the nature of the music, but I could be wrong/inexperienced.

How do you know how much limiting to apply to match a commercial recording?

[macc]

Originally Posted by termtables

When I open up the frequency analyzer should all the freq be pretty much even?

How does it sound? Does it really matter what it looks like?

Freq analysers are useful tools for certain things, but if something looks like the Alps and sounds great, who cares?

I'm not saying DON'T use a freq analyser, just never ever choose them over your ears. Don't judge a mix with your eyes any more than you'd judge a painting with your ears

How do you know how much limiting to apply to match a commercial recording?

If the mix isn't good enough, you'll mash up the track long before it reaches commercial levels, especially with lots of low low bass. You have to be very careful, and watch those release times....

You'll have to use those round curly things on the side of your head to see how much limiting you can get away with. Better that it sounds good than sounds loud IMHO! :)

[inlinenl]

again depends on the style/track ... but just watch a commercial CD-track in you're analyzer ... IMHO they tend to have quite a big bump in the low/end ... so not a flat eq response from 20HZ to 20Khz ...

how much limiting .... what kind off loudness/impact you're after ... limiting depends on you're other gear to raise the RMS ... High RMS does not equal impact/dynamics ....

[termtables]

thanks for the tips. is there any keywords i should search the forums for?

[camerondye]

Load a your favorite professional mix into your DAW, and look at the frequency curve of it. It will at least give you an idea of what to aim for, but use your ears....
cam

[inlinenl]

Originally Posted by termtables

thanks for the tips. is there any keywords i should search the forums for?

okay ... search for limit and loud .... ... we will see you back in three years .... there is way to much to read .. and you still don't know how it sounds ...

just take a compressor and eq and a limiter ( in that order, or switch the EQ before the comp ) on you're mixdown .... if you want to do it yourself ... even if it's just software ..... try to make it SOUND the way YOU like it and compare that to some commercial RAP/HIP-HOP .... on different speakers at different places .... just have fun and try, try, try .....

just don't push all things like you were mixing ( I don't know how you are mixing ) ... I only need max 1 dB or 1.5 dB limiting when mastering hiphop/dance/rap but i'm driving tube-gear and other analog stuff and AD converters .... please don't try that @ home ....

[MASSIVE Master]

Originally Posted by termtables

thanks for the tips. is there any keywords i should search the forums for?

"Listen" would be at the top of a short list.

[Ged Leitch]

Go back to the mix>>>

Find a track of the same genre and really similar or close instrumentation and have this on a spare audio track in your DAW.

Reduce the fader level as its already mastered, try to have at a level where you still have plenty of headroom on the masterbuss when its solo'd.

Now begin your mix from the ground up, start with your beat, kick/snare claps hats etc - and cross reference with the commercial track to get the balnce as close as you can between each drum/perc.

Continue with the other instruments - keep cross referencing,

This actually works well, BUT you have to search for a track that is very similar in tempo and instrumentation.

You have to bear in mind you'll never get it to match exactly, never, but you can use it as a reference.

You will always have to go back and tweak, but the main thing is your really tuning your ears to work better, and hopefully it will sound great at the end!!

Hope this helps.

[twwalsh]

if you have near field monitors, you might have to depend on a freq analyzer to see what's going on in the low end. i use one often, just as a sanity check. it also helps to watch where the vocal "esses" poke out in case you need to do some de-essing.

[termtables]

I feel like I have good mixes I'm just going for that loudness that everyone wants. I prefer more dynamics but people want the tracks smashed.

[Ged Leitch]

Originally Posted by termtables

I feel like I have good mixes I'm just going for that loudness that everyone wants. I prefer more dynamics but people want the tracks smashed.

what are you using as an AD convertor?

or are you just using a soundcard??

[termtables]

digi 002r.

[Ged Leitch]

Originally Posted by termtables

digi 002r.

ok, do you have access to a high quality convertor like a Lavry??

If not then go here>>>Stillwell Audio - It’s About The Sound » Event Horizon

try using a few db of clipping using this, and then a max of 1db limiting with L2.

If the mixes are good enough they should stay intact when doing this, if not it is the mixes.

[termtables]

would you say that plugin is better than the sonnox? I'm currently using the oxford limiter, but was using the L2 for quite a while.

[Ged Leitch]

Originally Posted by termtables

would you say that plugin is better than the sonnox? I'm currently using the oxford limiter, but was using the L2 for quite a while.

Depends on the materrial, how you want it to sound etc..but

Load the mix into your DAW, get the EQ sorted if needed, maybe some light compression (maybe none or maybe a db or 2) Then, use event horizon on clip mode to get some level (dont overdo it! 1 or 2db's is usually all thats needed) then try about 1db of limiting, either L2 works well or use another instance of event horizon on Limit mode threshold@ -1db.

Again its hard to give specifics without hearing the mix.

[minister]

ged, don't mean to be stepping in on your stuff, you are giving good advice.... but, have you tried the SONNOX (Sony Oxford) Limiter? it is THAT good. and with the finishing capabilities..... seems to me the OP should learn to work with it.

it does Voodoo to the transients.

Paul Frindle out-did himself on that.

anyway, carry, on....a reference is a really good idea. use your ears and compare compare compare.

[inlinenl]

if you are willing to learn .... hop on a train/plane .. go to some "decent mastering guy" with a "real" masteringroom and book 2 to 4 hours for 2 tracks ... communicate , see , watch and learn .... fastest way to learn ... there are some real OK masteringrooms in vancouver ... talk on the phone/e-mail maybe even get some after-hours prices ...

then try it @ home .....

[hackenslash]

Originally Posted by macc

How does it sound? Does it really matter what it looks like?

Freq analysers are useful tools for certain things, but if something looks like the Alps and sounds great, who cares?

I'm not saying DON'T use a freq analyser, just never ever choose them over your ears. Don't judge a mix with your eyes any more than you'd judge a painting with your ears



If the mix isn't good enough, you'll mash up the track long before it reaches commercial levels, especially with lots of low low bass. You have to be very careful, and watch those release times....

You'll have to use those round curly things on the side of your head to see how much limiting you can get away with. Better that it sounds good than sounds loud IMHO! :)

So this is where you've been hiding! Wotcher, mate! You down on Saturday?

[Lagerfeldt]

Originally Posted by inlinenl

but just watch a commercial CD-track in you're analyzer ... IMHO they tend to have quite a big bump in the low/end ... so not a flat eq response from 20HZ to 20Khz ...

But that in general has nothing to do with mastering. That's a production choice, what kind of kick and bass and how loud relatively speaking in the mix.

[inlinenl]

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt

But that in general has nothing to do with mastering. That's a production choice, what kind of kick and bass and how loud relatively speaking in the mix.

for sure you're right .... we just have to make sure 'the topic starter" is not killing that bump if it's in the mix ... just in order to get a visual flat-linner ... and killing the punch ....

[Ged Leitch]

Originally Posted by minister

ged, don't mean to be stepping in on your stuff, you are giving good advice.... but, have you tried the SONNOX (Sony Oxford) Limiter? it is THAT good. and with the finishing capabilities..... seems to me the OP should learn to work with it.

it does Voodoo to the transients.

Paul Frindle out-did himself on that.

anyway, carry, on....a reference is a really good idea. use your ears and compare compare compare.

Thats cool mate, tried the Sonnox(briefly) and liked it but never really had the time to get to grips with all the features, will definitley give it a more dedicated try out.
Thanks for the heads up!

[Bob Yordan]

Originally Posted by hackenslash

So this is where you've been hiding! Wotcher, mate! You down on Saturday?

Hello Hack & Macc

[hackenslash]

[macc]

Hello both :D

Can't be there on Saturday as I am away on holiday :(

Sorry others for the off topic - just nice bumping into friends on here! :D