CD-Text with DDP??

[Jenz]

I'm using PremasterCD from Sonic Studio, and the DDP export won't allow CD-Text. Is this the case with all DDP's? How common is CD-Text anyway? I don't even have a CD player that supports it actually. How do others do? Ask the plant to implement it? Don't ask me to send a CD-R master instead, i love DDP's.

[pelliott]

I use the SADiE 5 and they allow text with the ddp. That's how we do it. The plant here doesn't have that ability to "add" it so we do it for them.... How common is it? In the independent market that I'm in it's on about half the discs. However, some of the customers aren't quite sure as to what text is. They usually tend to think that it'll make the titles come up in itunes, etc...

[Jenz]

This is quite frustrating! Any SoundBlade users out there? Is it the same with that software? When you read the FAQ for PMCD it says "Yes, PMCD creates CD-R's with CD-Text". But when you dig in to it, the DDP's don't! Funny, since the whole point by having PremasterCD is their DDP exports, and that's how they try to sell it. I'd love to know more about this though!

[Thor]

As far as I know, sB/PMCD will deliver CD-R's with CD-Text, but not DDP's with CD-Text.

Why, I have no idea.

Simple solution - when delivering for a client who needs CD-Text, use a Redbook CD-R as premaster (it will have CD-Text). When the client doesn't need it or doesn't care, use DDP.

Obviously it's not an ideal situation, but that's how it stands as things are today.

I get asked for CD-Text about once in a blue moon, one of the other posters mentioned 50% of his work included text, so YMMV.

Best regards,
Thor

Originally Posted by Jenz

This is quite frustrating! Any SoundBlade users out there? Is it the same with that software? When you read the FAQ for PMCD it says "Yes, PMCD creates CD-R's with CD-Text". But when you dig in to it, the DDP's don't! Funny, since the whole point by having PremasterCD is their DDP exports, and that's how they try to sell it. I'd love to know more about this though!

[Darius van H]

I don't put on CD text unless someone specifically asks for it (which is almost never).........because of mis-spelt or changed song titles........i have not once had someone complain about the lack of text...only the i-tunes thing

[Jenz]

Originally Posted by Darius van H

I don't put on CD text unless someone specifically asks for it (which is almost never).........because of mis-spelt or changed song titles........i have not once had someone complain about the lack of text...only the i-tunes thing

What i-tunes thing? Do you mean upc/ean for identification?

[Cellotron]

Originally Posted by Jenz

What i-tunes thing? Do you mean upc/ean for identification?

No - he means a computer media player's proper identification and display of artist, album & song titles using an online database such as Gracenote's CDDB, Musicbrainz, AMG Lasso, or FreeDB. This information (stupidly imo) is never taken from CD Text but instead needs to be entered in these database services in order to for it to appear.

Anyway - my policy is usually to enter in CD Text for clients at no extra charge as an extra "value added" service as while they are not ubiquitous there are indeed more players out there capable of displaying CD Text these days - but to date I've always provided this on CD-R masters as amazingly I have had no call for DDP whatsoever in the 2 years since I started my own studio. When I get a call requesting for DDP is when I'll add the ability - probably via Gear PME as it offers a relatively inexpensive price for DDP (and for which I'm hoping their upcoming version 8 update will address some issues that has made me not purchase it just yet).

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[finetuner]

No hands-on experience yet, but maybe Wave Editor does the trick:
Audiofile Engineering - Wave Editor (inexpensive, DDP, Mac)


Most plants will be able to add the text data but not for free obviously.
Like Darius, and for the same reasons, i add them on special request only.

BTW, i think that 80% of the public confuses CD-TEXT with CDDB or FreeDB anyway.

Peter van't Riet
FineTune Mastering

[Jenz]

Originally Posted by Cellotron

No - he means a computer media player's proper identification and display of artist, album & song titles using an online database such as Gracenote's CDDB, Musicbrainz, AMG Lasso, or FreeDB. This information (stupidly imo) is never taken from CD Text but instead needs to be entered in these database services in order to for it to appear.

I understand this, but how is this info gathered, how is the CD identified? This is through the UPC/EAN code, right?

I use DDP is for nervous reasons, it feels great to know that the DDP either works or not, a CD-R can be faulty. However, this is only true if the CD-R ref's are made from the DDP. This is the case with PMCD, but not with Wave Editor. However, Wave Editor adds CD-Text to their DDP's (i just learned this), so there's no optimal solution (for OSX) that i know of. I'll stick with PMCD for now.

[twwalsh]

Originally Posted by Jenz

I understand this, but how is this info gathered, how is the CD identified? This is through the UPC/EAN code, right?

my understanding is that the disc is identified by the number of tracks and the length of each track...there is far less duplication of this info than you would expect! they are mostly unique. once in a great while itunes will ask me to choose from a couple CDDB entries on a disc, and never on a CD with more than 5 tracks on it.

[Cellotron]

Originally Posted by twwalsh

my understanding is that the disc is identified by the number of tracks and the length of each track....

This is correct.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[Jenz]

Ha ha, that's.. 80's.

On another note, when delivering DDP's to the plant, do you usually send them a CD-ref as well?

[Matthew Foust]

Originally Posted by Jenz

I use DDP is for nervous reasons, it feels great to know that the DDP either works or not, a CD-R can be faulty. However, this is only true if the CD-R ref's are made from the DDP. This is the case with PMCD, but not with Wave Editor. However, Wave Editor adds CD-Text to their DDP's (i just learned this), so there's no optimal solution (for OSX) that i know of. I'll stick with PMCD for now.

Can you tell me what's not optimal about Wave Editor in this regard? Burning a CD-R reference from a DDP file does not guarantee that the CD-R itself will be 100% reliable.

[Jenz]

Originally Posted by Matthew Foust

Can you tell me what's not optimal about Wave Editor in this regard? Burning a CD-R reference from a DDP file does not guarantee that the CD-R itself will be 100% reliable.

Of course not Matthew, but my concern is the DDP, not the CD-R! If the CD-R is faulty it takes no time to create a new DDP and then burn another CD-R. I'll never know for sure that my DDP's are safe unless i create my CD-ref's from them.

Your program wins in every other aspect, but i really wish that CD-burning could be performed from the final DDP (as an option, everyone won't use DDP of course).

I have your Sample Manager, and it would be great to have the SRC functions inside the sequencing software, today it's a bit of a detour. But i MUST be able to reflect the actaul master with my CD-ref's, no compromise here. Before i used DDP for delivery i made CD-copies from the final CD-R master to make sure everything was ok.

Please implement this and i'll push for Wave Editor!

[Adebar]

Originally Posted by Matthew Foust

Burning a CD-R reference from a DDP file does not guarantee that the CD-R itself will be 100% reliable.

I think the other way is more interesting. If a CD-R burned from the DDP file is good, also the DDP File must be good.

There is a new Version of PMCD, now 2.0.3, for download. Maybe it adresses the CD Text thing?

[Darius van H]

Originally Posted by Jenz

I'll never know for sure that my DDP's are safe unless i create my CD-ref's from them.

I don't agree with this.........it's a bit like saying you'll never know if a wav. file is uncorrupted unless you burn an audio CD from it.

[Jenz]

Originally Posted by Darius van H

I don't agree with this.........it's a bit like saying you'll never know if a wav. file is uncorrupted unless you burn an audio CD from it.

There's no logic in what you say, unless you open up the DDP and listen to it after it's been created. The corruption can happen in the DDP export, this have happened to me a few times. Since i always want to listen in a CD-player anyway it's double work, and neither PMCD nor Wave Editor supports opening DDP files.

[Darius van H]

Originally Posted by Jenz

There's no logic in what you say, unless you open up the DDP and listen to it after it's been created. The corruption can happen in the DDP export, this have happened to me a few times. Since i always want to listen in a CD-player anyway it's double work, and neither PMCD nor Wave Editor supports opening DDP files.

Ok, but let's be clear......you want to burn your audio CD from the DDP image in order to have peace of mind........i'm saying that if you can import the DDP and listen to it, check the start I.D.'s, ISRC codes, CD text etc, then the burning of the CD ref to listen to is unnecassary......THAT's double work!

[Jenz]

Originally Posted by Darius van H

Ok, but let's be clear......you want to burn your audio CD from the DDP image in order to have peace of mind........i'm saying that if you can import the DDP and listen to it, check the start I.D.'s, ISRC codes, CD text etc, then the burning of the CD ref to listen to is unnecassary......THAT's double work!

Read the post my friend: These programs DOES NOT have the ability to open DDP files!! The ONLY chance i have to check the DDP is by burning a CD from it. PMCD offer me this, Wave Editor don't.

[Darius van H]

You've never met me, so how can you be my friend?

I was just commenting on your earlier statement that: "I'll never know for sure that my DDP's are safe unless i create my CD-ref's from them" which is not correct.........i just thought it might give others the impression that one always needs to burn a DDP onto audio CD in order to check it.

Carry on.

[Jenz]

That's not what you claimed, and anyway we were discussing those softwares, so stay out of it if you don't have a clue.

[Darius van H]

LOL........and have a fine day yourself.

[Matthew Foust]

Originally Posted by Jenz

Of course not Matthew, but my concern is the DDP, not the CD-R! If the CD-R is faulty it takes no time to create a new DDP and then burn another CD-R. I'll never know for sure that my DDP's are safe unless i create my CD-ref's from them.

Your program wins in every other aspect, but i really wish that CD-burning could be performed from the final DDP (as an option, everyone won't use DDP of course).

I have your Sample Manager, and it would be great to have the SRC functions inside the sequencing software, today it's a bit of a detour. But i MUST be able to reflect the actaul master with my CD-ref's, no compromise here. Before i used DDP for delivery i made CD-copies from the final CD-R master to make sure everything was ok.

Please implement this and i'll push for Wave Editor!

Ah, I've got it. I was missing your point. You want load-back which is definitely on the way.

[Jenz]

Originally Posted by Matthew Foust

Ah, I've got it. I was missing your point. You want load-back which is definitely on the way.

Load-back would be nice, but i'd rather be able to burn my CD-R ref's direct from the DDP! On the other hand, with load-back i could burn a CD from the load-back.. An idea, but 1 unecessary step for me. Please confirm that you understand what i mean though, it feels like i've tried to explain my preferred workflow in 8 posts now to various people.

[Adebar]

Both is possible with PMCD. You can burn a CD-Audio from a DDP File without needing an add on.

With DDP Option you can load back the DDP File in PMCD.

[Jenz]

That's correct, i guess we fell a bit off topic, the initial discussion was how to deal with the fact that PMCD can't implement CD-Text in the DDP's. Except from that it works great!

[reynaud]

I rarely get requests for CD Text so the limitation of PMCD and soundBlade not adding it to DDP filesets is a non-issue.

However, for those times that it is requested (at most 5% of the time) I ftp the DDP fileset along with a text document including all the CD Text information. The CD Plant I use adds this information for me with no additional cost using Eclipse Suite 2.0. As far as I know the previous version of Eclipse Suite didn't allow this but I could be wrong on that.

So far I have not had an issue. Best is to check with the CD Plant you regularly use and see if they can't add the information for you.

cheers,
Reynaud

[Matthew Foust]

Originally Posted by Jenz

Load-back would be nice, but i'd rather be able to burn my CD-R ref's direct from the DDP! On the other hand, with load-back i could burn a CD from the load-back.. An idea, but 1 unecessary step for me. Please confirm that you understand what i mean though, it feels like i've tried to explain my preferred workflow in 8 posts now to various people.

I guess I need to know the implementation in PMCD.

Are you looking, then, to simply point Wave Editor at an existing DDP file set _without_ opening/loading it and burn a CD from it? If that's the case, it really is ultimately loading the DDP set in the background. That said, if having to open/load the DDP is the step you want to eliminate, that would be very easy to implement at the same time as load-back.

[Jenz]

Originally Posted by Matthew Foust

I guess I need to know the implementation in PMCD.

Are you looking, then, to simply point Wave Editor at an existing DDP file set _without_ opening/loading it and burn a CD from it? If that's the case, it really is ultimately loading the DDP set in the background. That said, if having to open/load the DDP is the step you want to eliminate, that would be very easy to implement at the same time as load-back.

You might be right, perhaps it will be enough to have the load-back option, i'll keep my eyes open and try it when you have it done.

[Alpha Bob]

Originally Posted by Matthew Foust

I guess I need to know the implementation in PMCD.

Are you looking, then, to simply point Wave Editor at an existing DDP file set _without_ opening/loading it and burn a CD from it? If that's the case, it really is ultimately loading the DDP set in the background. That said, if having to open/load the DDP is the step you want to eliminate, that would be very easy to implement at the same time as load-back.

Really like the look of your program Matthew but just waiting, as I'm sure many others are, for the loadback implementation.
Will it be a part of the program or an optional extra as other programs have?

Bob