"Burn-proof" with Plextor?

[Rick Sutton]

I'm trying to determine if using Plextor "burn-proof" setting with a Sadie 5 can cause a master to show an uncorrectable error at the plant. Anyone run into this?
I'm grasping at straws here due to a rejected master that measured fine here on Plextools.

[bob katz]

Originally Posted by Rick Sutton

I'm trying to determine if using Plextor "burn-proof" setting with a Sadie 5 can cause a master to show an uncorrectable error at the plant. Anyone run into this?
I'm grasping at straws here due to a rejected master that measured fine here on Plextools.

I think you are grasping at straws. We went through a number of tests with Burn proof and it's "measurement proof". You can't find any errors where the laser may be starting or stopping. I've been cutting with burnproof now for a number of years, no plant rejects yet, and error rates with Taiyos in the "under 1 average" on many discs.

The master may have gotten an uncorrectable error through some damage, or EVEN consider the possibility that the plant's reader is not quite aligned to your writer. Every reader shows a different error rate, and at different speeds, too. Things like this do happen.

[Cellotron]

Originally Posted by Rick Sutton

I'm trying to determine if using Plextor "burn-proof" setting with a Sadie 5 can cause a master to show an uncorrectable error at the plant. Anyone run into this?
I'm grasping at straws here due to a rejected master that measured fine here on Plextools.

Burn-proof is actually a nice feature for making sure what you are indicating doesn't happen - so I don't think this is the culprit.

A lot can happen from the time a master leaves your studio to when it is tested at the plant. One thing to be aware of is plant side testing software such as Eclipse tends to be more accurate and specific than Plextools - so it might be showing something that Plextools missed.

Also - if you added a label or printed on the CD-R after you tested there is the possibility that step unbalanced or damaged the master creating an error after it was tested (which is why I print and do a single play of CD-R master discs prior to error testing them).

Next there is the possibility that the master was handled by either the client (very often the culprit - either playing it and handling it to the point where the surface is severely scratched before sending it to the plant- or some even sending in copies of masters they've made themselves!), shipping company, or plant side customer service reps or replication techs leading to damage that shows as a CU.

I would request that the plant fax you a copy of the test results - which would indicate the exact sector and nature of the problem(s) that lead to the rejection. Sometimes a rejection of a master happens because of improper subcode handling and/or clusters of C2's and not just because of a CU.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[twwalsh]

ask the client if he/she wrote on it with a marker. that will cause an error for sure.

[Rick Sutton]

Thanks to everyone for the replies. It probably is a one time event but a panicked client always tends to unsettle me (after 35 years in the business you'd think I'd have thicker skin!).
Anyway, as usual I wasn't able to get a technical answer from the plant so I'm waiting to get the master back so I can retest it and physically inspect it. If it tests fine and there is no apparent physical damage I'll have to chalk it up to Murphy.
I asked the rep at the plant to at least describe the disc to me and it appears to be the original master. In the mean time I made several new masters and shipped them off....of course the client had set an impossibly tight dedline and this little mishap is going to make it even more difficult to meet. And I thought the new Sadie/Plextools system would eliminate this kind of surprise.........maybe I should go back to sending two plant masters with every job like I used to do with my aging Sonic system.
Any of you include a "safety" as a regular procedure?
Thanks, Rick

Oh, the advice to check the master after printing on it (Rimage thermal) sounds like a new plan for me, thanks for the tip. And good to hear that "burn-proof" has been successful for you as that had only recently been employed here and I was concerned that I was going to be getting more of these phone calls as the "BP" masters hit the plants in the next few weeks...............it's never dull is it? Tried to reach Sadie to run this by them and even they have closed up shop in the US..........gotta get a glass of wine and chill. Have a great weekend!

[djwaudio]

I would not stress about this until I got a report from the plant that explicitly indicates the problem.

Most plants just want you to send another master. I went through this last year, spending a fortune in time and money Fed-Exing safety masters multiple times, only to find that the indicators on the Eclipse were set wrong. They were rejecting masters with "fatal error" warnings that where supposed to be "informational" indications that the master has text.

They never did apologize or offer to cover the cost of the three overnight Fed-Ex bills...

Get the Eclipse report first. If you need help deciphering it, let me know. I used to have Eclipse.

[Rick Sutton]

Originally Posted by djwaudio

I went through this last year, spending a fortune in time and money Fed-Exing safety masters multiple times, only to find that the indicators on the Eclipse were set wrong. They were rejecting masters with "fatal error" warnings that where supposed to be "informational" indications that the master has text.

Now that you mention it, this master had CD Text also. Of the new masters I sent today one has the text disabled.
Hopefully I can get the Eclipse report, but this plant is Discmakers and I've always had problems with them when it comes to getting to bottom of ANY technical issue as they don't want you to get past there rep/sales people and they really don't speak this language. I brought the "text" subject up with the rep and he said that it was an occaisional problem but couldn't get any specific details other than "rejected due to uncorrectable error".
If I do get the Eclipse report I'll take you up on your kind offer to decipher it.
Many thanks.

[twwalsh]

Originally Posted by Rick Sutton

Thanks to everyone for the replies. It probably is a one time event but a panicked client always tends to unsettle me (after 35 years in the business you'd think I'd have thicker skin!).
Anyway, as usual I wasn't able to get a technical answer from the plant so I'm waiting to get the master back so I can retest it and physically inspect it. If it tests fine and there is no apparent physical damage I'll have to chalk it up to Murphy.
I asked the rep at the plant to at least describe the disc to me and it appears to be the original master. In the mean time I made several new masters and shipped them off....of course the client had set an impossibly tight dedline and this little mishap is going to make it even more difficult to meet. And I thought the new Sadie/Plextools system would eliminate this kind of surprise.........maybe I should go back to sending two plant masters with every job like I used to do with my aging Sonic system.
Any of you include a "safety" as a regular procedure?
Thanks, Rick

Oh, the advice to check the master after printing on it (Rimage thermal) sounds like a new plan for me, thanks for the tip. And good to hear that "burn-proof" has been successful for you as that had only recently been employed here and I was concerned that I was going to be getting more of these phone calls as the "BP" masters hit the plants in the next few weeks...............it's never dull is it? Tried to reach Sadie to run this by them and even they have closed up shop in the US..........gotta get a glass of wine and chill. Have a great weekend!

i would definitely recommend running error checks AFTER printing.

[Coyoteous]

BURN-Proof (BufferUnderRuN-Proof - developed by Sanyo) is good safety measure for CD, but a slower speeds it shouldn't engage at all. It is a must for DVD on some machines.

There are signal variations (errors) attributable to BP occurrences - almost always correctable. When writing from PTP, you will see (and log) BP occurrences - good for a speed check on a particular machine.

[MT Groove]

There is a good chance it is CD-Text related. From what I understand, the new version of Eclipse lowered the tolerance for CD-Text errors. I sent in a master once and it got rejected due to CD-Text error. With a little investigation I narrowed it down to the fact that I did not enter an Album Title.

[Rick Sutton]

Here's an update.
New master has passed Eclipse test and client is still on schedule....whew! Received the rejected master and inspected it carefully. There were a couple of fairly large but hard to see marks on it. Both had a large arc to them that made them run parallel to the tracking of the program. I ran it through Plextools and it showed significant errors including 3000 C2 and 299 CU. I was greatly relieved to see these results as my fear was that Plextools was not giving me a true account of the masters that I was sending out. I have since switched my error check to post printing but am finding that the Rimage is not causing any degradation in the error report.
I have no idea where the damage occurred to this master (I do not suspect it was caused by the client as he states that my packaging of the master was not tampered with and was sent to the plant as I supplied it inside an envelope with paperwork....this is a long term client that I trust) so I'm figuring during shipping or at the plant.
Thanks for all the replies.