What 2 Channel A/D Is More Transparent Than A Lavry Gold?

[Empire Prod]

I currently own a Lavry Gold AD122-96 MkII, but I'd like something even more transparent and accurate if at all possible. I really want something that is "invisible" and retains all my stereo imaging width/depth etc.

Is there anything I should check out?

[Adam Dempsey]

You really won't go wrong with the lavry gold, although the MkIII, we're told, runs a little cooler than the MkII.
You want to improve on it? Tried running it as master clock via word clock?
Others of this "league" are the Prism and Weiss models, but another lesser known one I used to use, and known for it's A-D more than its D-A, is the ADDA 2408 from Digital Audio Denmark.

[muziekschuur]

What console, mic-pre and microphone are used? Perhaps you could try a pair of DPA 4006 and record with that. I am quite sure that would output a more transparent signal.

It might not be the AD/DA bothering you.

[blaugruen7]

Originally Posted by muziekschuur

What console, mic-pre and microphone are used? Perhaps you could try a pair of DPA 4006 and record with that. I am quite sure that would output a more transparent signal.

It might not be the AD/DA bothering you.

i do think he is in mastering and so it looks not like a question of mics or mic-pres.

[zenmastering]

Pacific Microsonics Model 2 (if you can find one...)

EMM Labs ADC8 MK 4

Digital Audio Denmark 'Axion'

At this level of conversion (including the Lavry Gold) it's all damn good...just slightly 'different' from one another.

Graemme

[George Necola]

I think I should throw in the WEISS converters

[darkman2]

api a2d ??

[andrewj]

agreed the weiss or digital audio denmark stuff is real transparent! i do not know the prism!

[sub-d0]

I would definitely recommend the DCS 904 and 954, the most transparent and musical converter i tried, they can support DSD or DXD ,PC remote, really powerfull gear...

[Kees de Visser]

Originally Posted by Empire Prod

I currently own a Lavry Gold AD122-96 MkII, but I'd like something even more transparent and accurate if at all possible. I really want something that is "invisible" and retains all my stereo imaging width/depth etc.

Out of curiosity, how would you define "transparent"?
My attempt would be: no difference between output and input under the given conditions. But in that case "more transparent" is meaningless, just like "a bit pregnant", unless you change the conditions.
Suppose you would have all the converters that were proposed in this thread available for a demo, how would you find the most transparent one ? Not an easy task IMHO, if not an impossible one.

Kees de Visser

[Bob Boyd]

I'm using Lavry Gold here as well but I would suggest the Weiss ADC2 or Prism AD2.

I've heard the Prism and thought it was excellent. I haven't heard the Weiss A/D though I own several of their products and love their quality and attention to detail.

[arf]

I think you might find another that matches the transparency of the AD122 but not the character. Lavry's discrete approach has a sound unto itself. AFAIK, he also designed much of the PM converter.

[acorneau]

While I don't own one, I would have to put my vote in for the Pacific Microsonics unit.

The blind, mini shoot-out that Mark Wilder gave in his Sony room was incredible! The PM won hands-down against all the others he had (Lavry, dCS, Massenburg, etc.)

[bcgood]

This one is just slightly better than the AD/DA in the mbox 2.

[arf]

Originally Posted by acorneau

While I don't own one, I would have to put my vote in for the Pacific Microsonics unit.

The blind, mini shoot-out that Mark Wilder gave in his Sony room was incredible! The PM won hands-down against all the others he had (Lavry, dCS, Massenburg, etc.)

Do you know if the PMI was in HDCD mode for the shoot out?

[acorneau]

Originally Posted by arf

Do know if the PMI was in HDCD mode for the shoot out?

Don't know.

Mark?.....

[zenmastering]

Keith Johnson of Spectral (the main designer of the PM boxes) would be the one to confirm or deny that...

Originally Posted by arf

I think you might find another that matches the transparency of the AD122 but not the character. Lavry's discrete approach has a sound unto itself. AFAIK, he also designed much of the PM converter.

[DSD_Mastering]

I tried all the high-end converters when I was putting together my Mastering rig.
For PCM, the Lavry Gold is the most transparent and for DSD, the EMM Labs is the best. On the PCM side, the EMM labs is comparable to dCS, Prisim and DAD.
I'm very curious to hear the Grimm converters.

Regards,
Bruce

[bcgood]

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised if you do a double blind ABX test.

___________________________________________

An ABX test is a method of comparing two kinds of sensory stimuli to identify detectable differences. A subject is presented with two known samples (sample A, the reference, and sample B, an alternative). Of these two samples, one is selected as the unknown sample (sample X), which the subject identifies as being either A or B. If sample X cannot be determined reliably with a low p-value in a predetermined number of trials, then the null hypothesis cannot be rejected and it cannot be proven that there is a perceptible difference between samples A and B.

They can easily be performed as double-blind trials, eliminating any possible unconscious influence from the researcher or supervising technician.

ABX tests are commonly used in evaluations of digital audio data compression methods; sample A is typically a lossless sample without any compression applied, and sample B is a compressed version of A. Audible compression artifacts that indicate a shortcoming in the compression algorithm can be identified with subsequent testing. ABX tests can also be used to compare the different degrees of fidelity loss between two different audio formats at a given bitrate.

[lucey]

Originally Posted by acorneau

While I don't own one, I would have to put my vote in for the Pacific Microsonics unit.

The blind, mini shoot-out that Mark Wilder gave in his Sony room was incredible! The PM won hands-down against all the others he had (Lavry, dCS, Massenburg, etc.)

Good to know it still has fans, I do love mine.

[Dave Peck]

Originally Posted by arf

Lavry's discrete approach has a sound unto itself. AFAIK, he also designed much of the PM converter.

Nope, the Pacific Microsonics Model One and Model Two converters and HDCD technology were created by Pflash Pflaumer and Keith Johnson.

[mischa janisch]

Originally Posted by arf

I think you might find another that matches the transparency of the AD122 but not the character. Lavry's discrete approach has a sound unto itself. AFAIK, he also designed much of the PM converter.

Does he also use the discrete approach on his Gold AD? I always thought only the Gold DA was fully discrete...

Not sure about the PM, but I'm pretty sure he designed for Ultra Analog.

[lucey]

Originally Posted by Dave Peck

Nope, the Pacific Microsonics Model One and Model Two converters and HDCD technology were created by Pflash Pflaumer and Keith Johnson.

A totally different aesthetic to sound and engineering in the PM than anything Lavry, so that makes sense to me. Thanks Dave.

[just.sounds]

Originally Posted by DSD_Mastering

I'm very curious to hear the Grimm converters.

Regards,
Bruce

I heard some recordings made with them and they are amazing!
But it is going to take a while to get them into full production.
(I'm not from Grimmaudio but know some of the designers)
But there is progress made, also on the DD1 (dsd to pcm)
there is a prototype in the USA right now so if you are curious you could contact Eelco (Grimm)
he will know where it is!!

[Kees de Visser]

Originally Posted by bcgood

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised if you do a double blind ABX test.

I whole-heartedly agree, but this is probably the wrong forum for objectivity.

Kees de Visser

[arf]

Originally Posted by Dave Peck

Nope, the Pacific Microsonics Model One and Model Two converters and HDCD technology were created by Pflash Pflaumer and Keith Johnson.

From DL's own keyboard on his forum:

"First, the AD used by Pacific Microsonics was a "tweaked" version of an Analogic AD module. The DA used by them was a repackage job of my design that I did in Analog Solution. Both were PCM type multibit. "

[cichy]

my vote : mytek digital

[lucey]

Originally Posted by cichy

my vote : mytek digital

Everyone deserves a vote! Although I use the Mytek and PM everyday and the PM AD is superior to my ear. OTOH the Mytek DA, a single IC design, is very close to the huge and heavy Class A discrete PM. It's so very, very close as to be a draw (given preferences for this or that from the user.)

[GYang]

Originally Posted by bcgood

This one is just slightly better than the AD/DA in the mbox 2.

This one looks good as hell.
I would buy it even for exterior

[bcgood]

Originally Posted by GYang

This one looks good as hell.
I would buy it even for exterior