Favorite audiophile CDs for reference...

[Victor Lazlo]

As of late, I've been doing a whole lot of demoing various high-end monitors, working in different rooms, changing acoutical treatment around, re-tweaking my own room's monitor system, etc., and during the process, as I used my usual CD references that I know to help make slight tweaks and judgement calls, it's become painfully clear to me that a good deal of what I've always thought of as "great sounding CDs" in my collection are really not that great sounding at all (some of the "best" of my collection is still actually quite bad...maybe it's because I've always picked albums for reasons other than recording quality).

I was hoping some of you guys might help me to expand my reference CD library and continuing to train my ears to better discern truly great sounding audio regardless of the artistic merits (or paucity thereof) of the artist(s) by recommending your favorite audiophile quality redbook CDs (I realize that audiophile and 16/44.1 may be considered as mutually exclusive concepts by some) as references.

As a side note, I do a lot of singer-songwriter, folk (not as in "A Mighty Wind"), alt-country, rock, indie rock. and some stuff that's a bit harder than typical rock (though nothing with teased hair or leather). The only album that Im comfortable using as an audiophile reference in my CD library as of now is Rebecca Pidgeon's "The Raven". Please help! Thanks.

[bob katz]

Originally Posted by Victor Lazlo

As a side note, I do a lot of singer-songwriter, folk (not as in "A Mighty Wind"), alt-country, rock, indie rock. and some stuff that's a bit harder than typical rock (though nothing with teased hair or leather). The only album that Im comfortable using as an audiophile reference in my CD library as of now is Rebecca Pidgeon's "The Raven". Please help! Thanks.

Well, that's a pleasant note, since I was the recording engineer for "The Raven". I hesitate to personally recommend my own recordings as it sounds a bit slutty to do so, so I'll mention some of my own favorites... hey, why not pick some from the digido honor roll. They are not all "audiophile", but what does that mean anyway?

[bcgood]

Originally Posted by bob katz

Well, that's a pleasant note, since I was the recording engineer for "The Raven". I hesitate to personally recommend my own recordings as it sounds a bit slutty to do so, so I'll mention some of my own favorites... hey, why not pick some from the digido honor roll. They are not all "audiophile", but what does that mean anyway?

Both of you should go out and buy Amy Grant - Home for Christmas

I consider it to be one of the best sounding albums I own. It was tracked to tape and mastered so low most of the highest peaks don't go over -3 dB...

[cooker]

lately I've been listening to john mayer-continuum.

[lblstudio]

I think Rick Astley's "Free" is a pretty solid disc. I listen to it regularly to get used the sound of a system.

[Cellotron]

OK - warning here - my tastes for personal listening tend to veer to the eclectic with a good smattering of "world" hybrids, and modern "classical" (on the tonal side of things) - and as my user name might indicate I tend to favor cellos! - but all of the recordings that I am going to list feature acoustic instruments, excellent performances, compositions and sonics that I think are worthy of using as refereces as to what "good sound" can be.

Sussan Deyhim: Madman of G-d
Carl Orff: Carmina Burana / Riccardo Muti / Philharmonia Chorus & Orchestra Seraphim Classics / EMI. Original recording to analog 1980, digitally remastered 1997 EMI Classics.
Jordi Savall / Pedro Estevan: La Lira d'Esperia
Jordi Savall / Hesperion XXI: Orient-Occident
Sanda Weigl: Gypsy Killer
Rabih Abou Khalil: YARA
The Cracow Klezmer Ensemble: The Warriors
Nina Simone: Pastel Blues / Let It All Out (1990 Mercury/Polygram remaster)
Philip Glass / Yo-Yo Ma: Naqoyqatsi
Henryk Gorecki (Elektra / Nonesuch / Dawn Upshaw / David Zinman / London Sinfonietta): Symphony No. 3
Arvo Part: Litany (ECM) (actually nearly all of the Arvo Part releases on ECM are stunning)

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[squeegybug]

Ok, here are some I've used for reference:

- Dire Straits: On Every Street (original master, *not* the newer remaster)
- Wailin' Jennys: Forty Days
- Emmylou Harris: Stumble Into Grace
- Van Morrison: Back on Top
- Alison Krauss: So Long So Wrong


Another rule that often works for me, especially for folk/acoustic recordings -- look for mastering by Doug Sax.

Steve


PS Say hello to Ilsa for me

[22busy]

Originally Posted by Victor Lazlo

The only album that Im comfortable using as an audiophile reference in my CD library as of now is Rebecca Pidgeon's "The Raven". Please help! Thanks.

Hmmm, Victor Lazlo? Wasn't that the name of Ingrid Bergman's husband in Casablanca?

Hope this isn't a troll.

[Cellotron]

Originally Posted by Randall

Well Bob... this is GearSlutz!

Why would you want to use any shit eating CD as a reference source?
Be a stud and buy a turntable..

Vinyl mastering's "dirty little secret" since around 1978 is that nearly every record has either been cut using a 16bit Digital Delay Line - or from a 16bit source!!!!

Even today - the vast vast majority of record masters are cut from CD's!!!

At least most of the DDL's are 24bit now - and for those that actually care you can still get all analog transfers or cut hi-res digital using a DAW to mult out to the preview line and the cutter head. It's just that these two things rarely ever happen.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[807Recordings]

Originally Posted by Cellotron

Vinyl mastering's "dirty little secret" since around 1978 is that nearly every record has either been cut using a 16bit Digital Delay Line - or from a 16bit source!!!!

Even today - the vast vast majority of record masters are cut from CD's!!!

At least most of the DDL's are 24bit now - and for those that actually care you can still get all analog transfers or cut hi-res digital using a DAW to mult out to the preview line and the cutter head. It's just that these two things rarely ever happen.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

I press from 24-96, and a few guys I do know also. Still you are sadly correct that most people come from CD. I can think of at least once mastering house that only takes CD or 1/4 tape. No one sends in tape so most the stuff sounds like a CD.

Big guys and places like Simply Vinyl often get the analog master tapes to press from.

Radio Head Kid A
Radio Head OK Computer
Jameriquoia Return of Space Cowboy
Various Livin Stereo
Miles Davis Kind Of Blue
etc all from analog tape.

HIFI UK did a bunch of refrence CD's that came out to be very good quality and I love.
Le Quattro Stagioni on Archiv I also like for CD. Older but a system tester for Hi Freq.
Living Stereo Heifetz-Munch is SACD with CD layer and great.
Sade Stronger Than Pride and actually greatest hits has some good recordings for pop.
I have a bunch more I like also that I like that are good recordings not Audiophile names though.
Really Really watch out though for lame brand audiophile disks that costs too much. I got at least 6 hear my editor brought over and not only are the cheese and cliche but they are not that great of recordings and at $40 a disk a total rip off. At $5 they are a total scam.

[finetuner]

If you can find it*: "Salomos Høysang" with Lill Lindfors and Tommy Nilsson.
a wonderful production by Erik Hillestad.

Very pure and dynamic singer/songwriter type of music with both classic as wel as pop elements, written by Ketil Bjørstad.
Still gives me goosebumps.

(*available from Kirkelig Kulturverksted, Norway)

I yet have to find any rock album that i associate with audiophile. But if we forget that term for a moment, one of my (old) rock references is still Rage Against the Machine's first one. In the soft-pop/easy listening realm maybe Jamie Cullum, Diana Krall.

Peter

[inlinenl]

a must is the last from sir paul .... it's so loud !!! .. I love it ....

[beyarecords]

Anything by Hiromi on the Telarc record label.

[Jerry Tubb]

Donald Fagen - "Morph the Cat" - mastered by Darcy Proper & Joe Palmaccio. funky jazz ~ Steely Dan.

Michael Hedges - "Aerial Boundaries", amazing visionary acoustic guitar from 1985.

JT

[Bob Boyd]

I'm going to take a small amount of bandwidth to recommend that people avoid the new Genesis remixes / remasters.

If you're aware of what the originals sounded like, this is truly a shame. Much of it is unnecessarily smashed and at times far too bright. Ironically, they've released these new versions on SACD too. I'm usually not critical of other engineers work and so I won't name names but do yourself a favor and track down the originals.

I had read a post from Hugh Padgham (who originally engineered a lot of these tracks) on another sight mentioning how bad these new Genesis discs sound. I should have listened and saved myself 15 bucks.

[PMDUBS]

Originally Posted by Cellotron

Henryk Gorecki (Elektra / Nonesuch / Dawn Upshaw / David Zinman / London Sinfonietta): Symphony No. 3

To hear this on a decent to great system always yanks tears from my eyes. Never fails to get me

[lm66]

Originally Posted by 22busy

Hmmm, Victor Lazlo? Wasn't that the name of Ingrid Bergman's husband in Casablanca?

Hope this isn't a troll.

It's also the nickname (or stage name) of a female french singer...

[ak23]

Originally Posted by Cellotron

Vinyl mastering's "dirty little secret" since around 1978 is that nearly every record has either been cut using a 16bit Digital Delay Line - or from a 16bit source!!!!

Even today - the vast vast majority of record masters are cut from CD's!!!

At least most of the DDL's are 24bit now - and for those that actually care you can still get all analog transfers or cut hi-res digital using a DAW to mult out to the preview line and the cutter head. It's just that these two things rarely ever happen.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

Hi Steve,

yes you are right and the early 16Bit delays sounded horrible.
I directly cut out of my DAW over the Lavry´s into my SAL74.
Only attenuated by a Shallco stepped attenuator.
Or from tape without a delay using the delay loop, but i rarely receive
master tapes so i use it sometimes for my own mastering.
Cut directly from the mastered tape to the lathe.
Anyway even a digital sounding 16Bit file sounds often better after the cut on lacquer disk.

greetings

andreas

schnittstelle
Mastering & Vinylschnitt
Frankfurt - Germany

[Cellotron]

re:Henryk Gorecki (Elektra / Nonesuch / Dawn Upshaw / David Zinman / London Sinfonietta): Symphony No. 3

Originally Posted by PMDUBS

To hear this on a decent to great system always yanks tears from my eyes. Never fails to get me

& mastered by Bob Ludwig!!

I was very fortunate to hear David Zinman conduct this live with the Baltimore
Symphony back in 1994. It was pretty awe inspiring.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[Victor Lazlo]

Thanks everyone for the replies and recommendations. A couple of quick thoughts: I would love to step up (or back up) into the world of vinyl or 1/2", but, alsa, it's not in my budget currently to do it correctly. I would also agree that Steely Dan, Supertramp, and Bad Company (some of my personal favorites) don't quite cut it for reference, though I love the sound of the albums. Maybe it's the limitations of the format?

Bob (Katz), I'm not sure how I missed the fact that you did "The Raven" (I should pay more attention to these things), but it's strange to see that you're the first to reply since I'm also re-reading your book, "Mastering Audio" right now as well. That recording is stunning to me. I'd love to hear what some of your favorites are (even if they happen to be your own).

I whole-heartedly agree with the re-mastered Genesis observation (if we're referring to the remasters of "Selling England By the Pound", "Foxtrot", etc.). They're borderline unlistenable to me. The originals are far superior to me.

Victor Lazo is just my handle from other forums and messageboards. I'm not sure what a "Trol" is, but I'm guessing this isn't one. Thanks everyone...keep them coming.

Ian Hlatky

[present]

Originally Posted by Victor Lazlo

I whole-heartedly agree with the re-mastered Genesis observation (if we're referring to the remasters of "Selling England By the Pound", "Foxtrot", etc.). They're borderline unlistenable to me. The originals are far superior to me.

The reference was to the 1976-1982 remixes / remasters, and the irony of using about 1% of an SACD's resolution.

Anyway, I like to use Joni Mitchell's Travelogue for reference sometimes.

regards

[joeaudio]

Steely Dan-Two Against Nature.
Critique your cables with this record.

[travisbrown]

Originally Posted by bcgood

Both of you should go out and buy Amy Grant - Home for Christmas

I consider it to be one of the best sounding albums I own. It was tracked to tape and mastered so low most of the highest peaks don't go over -3 dB...

Everything Brown Bannister does is top notch. And the roster on that album is pretty much every first call musician in Nashville, if I recall. Payroll must have been huge.

[Ben F]

Joan as Police woman - Real life
Anything by Karen Anne
A couple of good Australian Rock bands
Andreas Kruger - Peace Orchestra

[flail19]

temple o' the dog

[Thor]

Steely Dan - Aja (vinyl, MCA)
Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon (vinyl, find an original pressing)
Muddy Waters - Folk singer (Vinyl, MFSL)
Mighty Sam McLain - Give it up to Love (CD, Audioquest)
Airto Moreira, Flora Purm and Joe Farrell - 3 way mirror (CD, Reference Recordings)
Jordy Saval - Tout les Matins du Monde (CD, not sure label)
Weather Report - Heavy Weather (CD, not sure label)
Mozart - Le nozze di Figaro (CD, have to look up the label and conductor)
Saint Saëns - Organ recital no. 3, Ormandy, Murray (CD, Telarc)
Any of the Chesky Jazz series (recorded by none other than Bob Katz!)
Anything on Reference Recordings is also going to be amazing, as is much of the AudioQuest catalogue.

These should be a good starting point.

Cheers,
Thor

[Rubito]

Depending on the style of music, but

-anything by Missy Elliot

-"El Amor de mi Tierra" by Carlos Vives

-anything by Yes, but especially "Fragile" and "90125"

[Dude Masters]

Milton Mapes-The Blacklight Trap
Morphine-The Night
Monk and Coltrane-Live at Carnegie Hall
Drag the River-Live at the Starlight
Easy Star All Stars-Dub Side of the Moon

[lucey]

I carry around a file with about 20 tracks from Norah Jones, Coldplay, Miles Davis, Bjork, Daniel Lanois, Beyonce, Snoop, Beck, Buena Vista, Emmy Lou, ACDC, Audioslave, Incubus, and a few from artists I've worked with in dance/house, americana/folk and rock. Many are used because they push a low or a high boundary line to the edge (thin low end, fat low end, very dynamic, very loud, very bright, very dark, etc.) not just because they sit perfectly as an "audiophile" example.

It's important to be listening for some aspect of a sound, not just for something good sounding overall.