Upsampling for mastering.

opus · 21st September 2007, 09:22 PM

OK Mastering engineers......I have more then one PT HD3 rigs at my finger tips. I have a 24/44.1 mix finished and need to record a stereo mix back into PT from the board. Should I record it back into the session or should I record it into a new session on the other PT system at a higher resolution like 88.2? Then all mastering steps would be at a high res. I think this would be better since it will get converted again for outboard mastering gear.

The tie line to the other studio is the only disadvantage I can think of as it is very long. The patch bay is mogami wired TT. What do you think? Not to be a jerk but if you dont master on a professional level please dont reply.
Thanks!

bob katz · 21st September 2007, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by opus

OK Mastering engineers......I have more then one PT HD3 rigs at my finger tips. I have a 24/44.1 mix finished and need to record a stereo mix back into PT from the board. Should I record it back into the session or should I record it into a new session on the other PT system at a higher resolution like 88.2? Then all mastering steps would be at a high res. I think this would be better since it will get converted again for outboard mastering gear.

The tie line to the other studio is the only disadvantage I can think of as it is very long. The patch bay is mogami wired TT. What do you think? Not to be a jerk but if you dont master on a professional level please dont reply.
Thanks!

I gather you would use an A/D converter at 88.2 kHz to upsample, eh? Well, if you are planning on doing any OTHER analog processing, then to avoid too many conversions, you ought to do your entire work in context, apply the A/D conversion, analog processing, then bring it into the second PT system at 88.2 and do the rest of the work there digitally with no further conversion. This would work.

Two points:

---It is NOT necessary to use a 2X integer, 96 K will do just fine, if you avoid using Tweakhead SRC to get it back to 44 and use a more respectable downsampler

---Find the VERY best pair of converters and clocking to do this conversion possible. There is a meaningful loss in transparency with "medium quality converters".

opus · 22nd September 2007, 09:46 AM

wow thanks for the reply!
So to be clear, yes this would be my final step before sending off to the mastering engineer. So its converting as i mix with outboard gear and summing(SSL4000) then from there I would print that mix into a new session running 96k for the mastering to take place @96k. So it converts twice but it has to. Then again when its mastered by the ME. Im using the HD192 converters. There not the best but way better then the 888's!

MattGray · 22nd September 2007, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by opus

wow thanks for the reply!
So to be clear, yes this would be my final step before sending off to the mastering engineer. So its converting as i mix with outboard gear and summing(SSL4000) then from there I would print that mix into a new session running 96k for the mastering to take place @96k. So it converts twice but it has to. Then again when its mastered by the ME. Im using the HD192 converters. There not the best but way better then the 888's!

If you are mixing it out of Pro Tools into analog outboard & summing through an SSL I'd be inclined to mix it down to half inch analog tape if possible. Then you could present the half inch reels to the mastering engineer & they could play it back off tape through their analog chain & capture back to digital with the best quality conversion. This is assuming you have a 2 track analog tape deck?

If you don't then I'd print both files, one to the alternate HD rig at 24-96 & the other back into to the playback rig at 24-44.1, then give both files to the mastering engineer & let him decide which one sounds best to work with. The best option maybe the one without the longer cable run despite the sample rate, but to be sure print both & compare.

Matt

bob katz · 22nd September 2007, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by opus

wow thanks for the reply!
So to be clear, yes this would be my final step before sending off to the mastering engineer. So its converting as i mix with outboard gear and summing(SSL4000) then from there I would print that mix into a new session running 96k for the mastering to take place @96k. So it converts twice but it has to. Then again when its mastered by the ME. Im using the HD192 converters. There not the best but way better then the 888's!

Hmmm..... no more conversions in total than the typical mix/mastering. The HD192 converters are not bad. Blind shootouts recently done at Phat Planet studio, Orlando recently put it:

all at 96K sample rate, from a live tracking session

Mytek ---killed the other two, just more "there there", much better dimension, more "real"
HD-192--- not bad
Apogee AD 16/DA16--- seemed "smaller, pinched"

BK

**Riccardo** · 22nd September 2007, 03:06 PM

Yes the 192 while not being the best is not bad.
Agreed,if you have access to a nice ATR and the genre is right go for tape!

opus · 24th September 2007, 03:19 AM

when using the 192 and the sync I/O what is the best clock setup?

arf · 24th September 2007, 04:14 AM

Some rather experienced and high-pedigree ears have been raving about the Korg MR1000 DSD recorder as the near-perfect mix capture device for analog mastering. It's analog I/O only and runs at DSD and DSDx2 rates. You run your mix into it, tuck it under your arm, and take it to the mastering house for analog playback through the ME's analog chain.

Claude G. · 20th November 2007, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arf

Some rather experienced and high-pedigree ears have been raving about the Korg MR1000 DSD recorder as the near-perfect mix capture device for analog mastering. It's analog I/O only and runs at DSD and DSDx2 rates. You run your mix into it, tuck it under your arm, and take it to the mastering house for analog playback through the ME's analog chain.

So, I could record my mix from my Analog Mixer to the Korg, then play it back and record (copy) it analog into my Masterlink at 16/44.1 and burn a consumer level CD.....what THAT would give me is a better sounding 16 bit recording, right?

arf · 20th November 2007, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claude G.

So, I could record my mix from my Analog Mixer to the Korg, then play it back and record (copy) it analog into my Masterlink at 16/44.1 and burn a consumer level CD.....what THAT would give me is a better sounding 16 bit recording, right?

I don't think the Korg "improves" mixes, just captures and plays them better in DSD mode than many converters running at 96kHz or less.

lucey · 21st November 2007, 01:08 AM

Interesting news Alan, I'll look into that more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by opus

OK Mastering engineers......I have more then one PT HD3 rigs at my finger tips.

Oh boy, options!

Quote:

I have a 24/44.1 mix finished and need to record a stereo mix back into PT from the board. Should I record it back into the session or should I record it into a new session on the other PT system at a higher resolution like 88.2? Then all mastering steps would be at a high res. I think this would be better since it will get converted again for outboard mastering gear.

The tie line to the other studio is the only disadvantage I can think of as it is very long. The patch bay is mogami wired TT. What do you think? Not to be a jerk but if you dont master on a professional level please dont reply.
Thanks!

Listen to the rates and decide?

Unless the mix is so good that it needs nothing more than a db of eq in an all digital pass it really doesn't matter because it's going to be adjusted. Unless you're looking at all digital mastering where higer rates are useful, then sample rates are overrated. The quality of the captured sound is by and large a function of the device itself. A better converter is your goal, not a higher rate. Sample rates have an effect but not as great as different converters at the same rate. Sometimes having so many options takes us off the ball, the mix, the mix, the mix. If you really want to go nuts with it, A/B/C a few different converters and pick the device/sample rate you prefer.

DSD_Mastering · 21st November 2007, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arf

Some rather experienced and high-pedigree ears have been raving about the Korg MR1000 DSD recorder as the near-perfect mix capture device for analog mastering. It's analog I/O only and runs at DSD and DSDx2 rates. You run your mix into it, tuck it under your arm, and take it to the mastering house for analog playback through the ME's analog chain.

This is what I'm convincing more and more of my clients to do. I then take the DSD files and import them into my Pyramix rig. Sweet!!

Regards,
Bruce

zenmastering · 21st November 2007, 03:59 AM

To continue this semi-threadjacking...

If you want to hear a good example of the Korg MR-1000's mic pre/A to D finesse, check out this recording:

"Sorrow of the River" by Guo Ya-zhi on MA Recordings (M074A).

Welcome to MA Recordings Online

This was recorded directly into the MR-1000 at 2x DSD rate and then converted to 1x DSD for editing. The down-conversion to Redbook was done in the Korg 'AudioGate' software and the results are rather impressive.

I'll add that Todd Garfinkle, MA's head honcho, could make an excellent recording with cans and strings. Here, the MR-1000 merely confirms his expertise.

My own experience of the MR-1000 is that it makes an excellent mix capture/playback deck. The two that I use have been 100% reliable so far.

I'd much sooner spend $1200 on one of these than mix back to PT through HD192 converters.

Graemme

Thor · 21st November 2007, 10:50 AM

Hi Graemme,

I don't see this title or artist on their site. Could you double check the info?

Cheers,
Thor

Quote:

Originally Posted by zenmastering

To continue this semi-threadjacking...

If you want to hear a good example of the Korg MR-1000's mic pre/A to D finesse, check out this recording:

"Sorrow of the River" by Guo Ya-zhi on MA Recordings (M074A).

Welcome to MA Recordings Online

This was recorded directly into the MR-1000 at 2x DSD rate and then converted to 1x DSD for editing. The down-conversion to Redbook was done in the Korg 'AudioGate' software and the results are rather impressive.

I'll add that Todd Garfinkle, MA's head honcho, could make an excellent recording with cans and strings. Here, the MR-1000 merely confirms his expertise.

My own experience of the MR-1000 is that it makes an excellent mix capture/playback deck. The two that I use have been 100% reliable so far.

I'd much sooner spend $1200 on one of these than mix back to PT through HD192 converters.

Graemme

zenmastering · 21st November 2007, 12:11 PM

Hi Thor,

Must be newer than the website info! I got it from Todd somewhere around the middle of October. If you contact them at the address below, I'm sure they'll hook you up...

info@marecordings.com

Thanks for pointing that out!

Graemme

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
upsampling to 88.2	jerdude	So much gear, so little time!	1	7th September 2007 03:33 AM
Upsampling my files?	StringMike	So much gear, so little time!	0	19th November 2006 04:35 PM
Upsampling for mastering	pingu	Mastering forum	9	12th April 2006 12:06 PM
Upsampling	ttauri	So much gear, so little time!	1	14th March 2005 02:49 AM
Upsampling 44.1 to 48 for video?	bdunard	So much gear, so little time!	7	20th February 2005 06:15 PM

21st September 2007, 09:22 PM	#1
opus Gear Head Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Kansas City Posts: 72	Upsampling for mastering. OK Mastering engineers......I have more then one PT HD3 rigs at my finger tips. I have a 24/44.1 mix finished and need to record a stereo mix back into PT from the board. Should I record it back into the session or should I record it into a new session on the other PT system at a higher resolution like 88.2? Then all mastering steps would be at a high res. I think this would be better since it will get converted again for outboard mastering gear. The tie line to the other studio is the only disadvantage I can think of as it is very long. The patch bay is mogami wired TT. What do you think? Not to be a jerk but if you dont master on a professional level please dont reply. Thanks!

22nd September 2007, 03:06 PM	#6
Riccardo Mastering Moderator Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Always on the Run Posts: 1,430	Yes the 192 while not being the best is not bad. Agreed,if you have access to a nice ATR and the genre is right go for tape! __________________ Velvet Room Mastering "What quality level does it need to be? Personally, I work on mixes that range from marvellous to hideously diabolical.......I'd suggest you aim more towards the "marvellous" end of the scale!" - Darius van Helfteren -

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes	Rate This Thread
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode	Rate This Thread:

22nd September 2007, 09:46 AM	#3
opus Gear Head Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Kansas City Posts: 72	wow thanks for the reply! So to be clear, yes this would be my final step before sending off to the mastering engineer. So its converting as i mix with outboard gear and summing(SSL4000) then from there I would print that mix into a new session running 96k for the mastering to take place @96k. So it converts twice but it has to. Then again when its mastered by the ME. Im using the HD192 converters. There not the best but way better then the 888's!

24th September 2007, 03:19 AM	#7
opus Gear Head Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Kansas City Posts: 72	when using the 192 and the sync I/O what is the best clock setup?

24th September 2007, 04:14 AM	#8
arf Gear maniac Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: NYC Posts: 258	Some rather experienced and high-pedigree ears have been raving about the Korg MR1000 DSD recorder as the near-perfect mix capture device for analog mastering. It's analog I/O only and runs at DSD and DSDx2 rates. You run your mix into it, tuck it under your arm, and take it to the mastering house for analog playback through the ME's analog chain.

21st November 2007, 03:59 AM	#13
zenmastering Gear nut Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Left Coast of Canada Posts: 148	To continue this semi-threadjacking... If you want to hear a good example of the Korg MR-1000's mic pre/A to D finesse, check out this recording: "Sorrow of the River" by Guo Ya-zhi on MA Recordings (M074A). Welcome to MA Recordings Online This was recorded directly into the MR-1000 at 2x DSD rate and then converted to 1x DSD for editing. The down-conversion to Redbook was done in the Korg 'AudioGate' software and the results are rather impressive. I'll add that Todd Garfinkle, MA's head honcho, could make an excellent recording with cans and strings. Here, the MR-1000 merely confirms his expertise. My own experience of the MR-1000 is that it makes an excellent mix capture/playback deck. The two that I use have been 100% reliable so far. I'd much sooner spend $1200 on one of these than mix back to PT through HD192 converters. Graemme

21st November 2007, 12:11 PM	#15
zenmastering Gear nut Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Left Coast of Canada Posts: 148	Hi Thor, Must be newer than the website info! I got it from Todd somewhere around the middle of October. If you contact them at the address below, I'm sure they'll hook you up... info@marecordings.com Thanks for pointing that out! Graemme