Limiter comparisons (with sound)

[Nahuel]

It's interesting to see that Lagerfeldt come to (almost) the same conclusions as me (on my own). The sonnox is amongst the best. That said I demoed elephant recently (I beleive it's been updated since this thread been posted) and found it to be a serious challenger.

there's the stillwel and PSP ones too.

I would be interested in hearing the DSM also (used as a brickwall limiter).

[Lagerfeldt]

I think the Sonnox is great for some things where high fidelity isn't paramount. On a daily basis I use the Flux Limiter alone or in combination with a bit of clipping.

[WBM]

Originally Posted by lucey

Sorry to be less than clear ... I would not use the L2 software for a file that was being processed digitally. There are many better choices. I do use it digitally, while making other choices around it with the analog chain. I do everything outboard, and I mightily resist using even a digital eq for a touch up. I tried the PL-2 as a way to dump the L2 and it didn't work for my specific needs.

For how long you have the PL-2, you used it with in & out gain off Mode?

Sometimes L2 comes after the Gold or the Hedd 192 difference in sound.

[Table Of Tone]

Anyone tried the clipper in the Flux pure comp II?

It makes for a better limiter, than most of the things mentioned in this thread!
Try it after an ADC that's just tickling the max lights!
Give it around 1 to 2db on the input and the same on the output.
Anymore and it sucks!

The DSM can be made to work well in much the same way.
It may even be better?
I haven't decided yet.
Still putting it through it's paces!

[frenzy]

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt

I think the Sonnox is great for some things where high fidelity isn't paramount. On a daily basis I use the Flux Limiter alone or in combination with a bit of clipping.

I agree with you, the Sonnox Limiter is good for some types of processing but it colors the sound especially in the upper frequencies. And when pushed to hard it starts acting like a compressor pushing vocals and snares back into the mix.

I've just bought the Flux Pure Pack and the Flux Limiter is my new favorite limiter. Just did a fast shootout comparing it with Sonnox, UAD Percision Limiter and PSP Xenon doing a couple of dB limiting on an already compress drum track. Sonnox sounded ok apart from a bit of audible distortion and upper frequency coloration. Xenon, which was my weapon of choice for mild limiting, sounded pretty good but started to suck out the smack of the snare when doing more that 3dB of limiting. The UAD Percision Limiter sounded very colored compared to the others and I've never found any use for it.
The clear winner was the Flux Limiter because it kept both the kick and snare pretty much intact even when doing 4-5 dB of limiting. Very impressive.
I love the fact that I'm able to fool around with different release setting and detection algorithms etcetera. Because then I can affect the way the limiting is applied and few other limiters offers that much versatility.

Still not sure if Flux Limiter will be my first choice for 2-buss brickwall limiting but it's already become my only choice for track and buss limiting.

> Anyone tried the clipper in the Flux pure comp II?

Yes I have and it's very good. Same goes for the Clipper in the Flux Syrah plug-in. Both are excellent compression plug-ins and I love the way they can smash drums and then be able to keep enough transients even after the clipper.

Flux Pure Comp II sounds great but it's going to take some time learning to master all the controls. Flux Syrah is a very cool compressor and the controls works really well even though I would love to have more control myself. But when I need 100% control I use Pure Comp II.


Cheers
Fred

My Studio

[Table Of Tone]

I've found that it's the platform just as much as the plug.

There's certain stuff that sucks as an AU but rocks as a (non-mac) VST!
The res of the audio file can also make a massive difference.
Floating point vs fixed etc.

[Andy Krehm]

Originally Posted by SafeandSound

One thing for sure is 1 limiter does not fit all.

I have 4 that all get used regularly on various material

While I am at it happy new year !

I'm with your on this!

Like many ME's who have been working for over a decade, I exclusively used the outboard L2 as soon as it was available.

Now I use the PSP Xenon and Massey L2007 much more than the L2 and, inspired by the mastering webboards, may try a few more limiters when I have a chance.

Each one puts its own sound on the master and it is usually obvious which one to use.

I also have the TC Brickwall Limiter via my TC 6000 but find I don't use it nearly as much as the others.

My "secret weapon" is the outboard PL-2 analog limiter positioned just before the ADC. Using this allows me to use the digital limiter less than I would normally have to. This limiter by itself will NOT produce loud masters but in conjuction with a digital limiter, gets the best results for me when volume is necessary.

[Lagerfeldt]

I use both the Oxford and Flux. But I must say... mostly the Flux ;-)

This thread just won't die.

[Ben F]

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt

I use both the Oxford and Flux. But I must say... mostly the Flux ;-)

This thread just won't die.

The Ozone 4 limiter with 'intelligent II' mode is also excellent with transient orientated music.

[Chris Lago]

Originally Posted by Ben F

The Ozone 4 limiter with 'intelligent II' mode is also excellent with transient orientated music.

I like to use the Ozone Limiter on Soft setting, either with the release at 50 or 100. Works great for me.

[MIROSONIC]

It would be good if the

w1 limiter is tested

[mossie23]

i'll keep this thread alive for a little bit longer...

i downloaded the files, put them in my daw, removed the names and set myself up for a listening test. in the beginning they sounded all the same, but after a few minutes things were clearly different, and it was quite easy to hear. which made me quite proud of my listening ability... these are things i just wouldn't hear a year ago.

i mainly listened for transient integrity, as i mainly do electronic dance music. bob ohlson is right that when you judge on just one element, you're sure to miss something else. but transient integrity has priority for me.

ozone was the clear winner to my ears, followed by free-g clip, timeworks clip and sonnox. the clipped files actually enhanced the transients a little bit, although not in the nicest way. all the others had some dulling effect. (l2 and l3 deserve a special mention here) personally, i also like to use the sonalksis maxlimit for serious pumping of individual sounds. i can almost make it sound like an 1176 on steroids. this is something ozone just can't do, whatever the settings.

to the person claiming that 'prevent intersample overs' veils the sound in ozone... you have very good ears, sir! i believe it was matt gray. i did a blind test and picked out the one with intersample over prevention every time.

[burrencrawler]

I wonder if the hardware 2u rack version of the waves L2 limiter would sound any better than the plugin as i am interested in getting one, any ideas?

[Andy Krehm]

Originally Posted by burrencrawler

I wonder if the hardware 2u rack version of the waves L2 limiter would sound any better than the plugin as i am interested in getting one, any ideas?

You will find some different opinions but I have both and to me there is no discernible difference.

I remember a poster saying he found that the same plug-ins sometimes sounded different in different shells and/or maybe DAWs but I've only used one DAW my whole mastering career so I have no idea!

If you are more comfortable with the hardware version, you are welcome to buy mine! It is going up for sale when I get around to selling all the things I don't use any more.

[MattGray]

Originally Posted by burrencrawler

I wonder if the hardware 2u rack version of the waves L2 limiter would sound any better than the plugin as i am interested in getting one, any ideas?

I think if you were to compare the current version of the L2 TDM plug-in to the L2 hardware you should find little to no audible difference at all. The TDM version being 48bit double precision internal processing (same as the hardware) & the newer software version can now be made to be "dual mono" (100% unlinked) & this has been the only main difference between the plug-in & the hardware in the past that I know of. The algorithm has always been identical apparently which is probably why Waves stopped making a physical L2 unit years ago. The hardware units seem to be plagued with reliability issues from posts I've read so unless you really need a physical limiter box I'd steer away from the hardware unit.

[greggybud]

Originally Posted by burrencrawler

I wonder if the hardware 2u rack version of the waves L2 limiter would sound any better than the plugin as i am interested in getting one, any ideas?

I asked this at PSW several years ago.

According to Waves, they should null.

However.... as I recall there was an issue as to if you were using protools or a VST.

Also some felt a difference using a separate L2, one for left one for right.

What I would really like to know, since so much emphasis has been placed on limiting, is do you rely on the limiter as your MAIN tool for volume increase? Or, does the majority increase come from multiple tools before it hits the limiter?

[MattGray]

Originally Posted by greggybud

What I would really like to know, since so much emphasis has been placed on limiting, is do you rely on the limiter as your MAIN tool for volume increase? Or, does the majority increase come from multiple tools before it hits the limiter?

I think you basically answered your own question... speaking personally I'm usually only looking for an extra 1-2dB of level if/when I use a limiter. The levels are usually increased gradually throughout the mastering chain. If you get too much level/GR with any limiter it will begin to do negative things to the sound.

[8080JP]

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt

I think the Sonnox is great for some things where high fidelity isn't paramount. On a daily basis I use the Flux Limiter alone or in combination with a bit of clipping.

Do you mean hitting 0.0 db and having flat top waveforms

or going slightly into the red?