Lavry Gold compared to Blue AD

[RoundBadge]

Hey guys .I have some Blues and played with a Gold yesterday.
sounded great,blew away the apogee 16x's..
unfortuneately couldn't do a direct comparison to my Blues.
Anybody do a direct A/B between the two?

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by RoundBadge

Hey guys .I have some Blues and played with a Gold yesterday.
sounded great,blew away the apogee 16x's..
unfortuneately couldn't do a direct comparison to my Blues.
Anybody do a direct A/B between the two?

I have for a friend.

There is a sonic difference for sure.

Lets just say he bought the Gold on the recomendation and has never looked back.

To bad i didn't have the funds to get one myself.

[RoundBadge]

I was at a mastering session the other day for a project I just finished and it was interesting to see the ME slam the Gold[going in w/ a miniscule bit of Vari mu/Sontec] ..with soft saturation set at +3db..[the blues only have the +6 setting]
got all the volume we needed..no L2 or other digital smackers..
all the limiting done with the Gold.
sounded great.

[peeder]

Originally Posted by RoundBadge

I was at a mastering session the other day for a project I just finished and it was interesting to see the ME slam the Gold[going in w/ a miniscule bit of Vari mu/Sontec] ..with soft saturation set at +3db..[the blues only have the +6 setting]
got all the volume we needed..no L2 or other digital smackers..
all the limiting done with the Gold.
sounded great.

Can I hear?

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by RoundBadge

I was at a mastering session the other day for a project I just finished and it was interesting to see the ME slam the Gold[going in w/ a miniscule bit of Vari mu/Sontec] ..with soft saturation set at +3db..[the blues only have the +6 setting]
got all the volume we needed..no L2 or other digital smackers..
all the limiting done with the Gold.
sounded great.

Yeah its one of the benefits.

The biggest though is when doing analog master transfers. I transfered a 1/2" master through the Gold, the Lavry Blue, the Apogee AD16X, Prism, HEDD 192 and the UA stereo converter.

Its one of the tests where you can really hear the strengths and weaknesses of a converter. Lets just say the Gold won convincingly. First time i heard a converter i could actually trust and not cringe when hearing a transfer.

I wish D. Lavry could make a 24 channel version just to do transfers from 2 inch 24 track.

[superburtm]

dude now I want to to try a gold!
Hey with the soft saturation thing..could I sorta simulate that with soft limit function on my apogee??

Originally Posted by RoundBadge

I was at a mastering session the other day for a project I just finished and it was interesting to see the ME slam the Gold[going in w/ a miniscule bit of Vari mu/Sontec] ..with soft saturation set at +3db..[the blues only have the +6 setting]
got all the volume we needed..no L2 or other digital smackers..
all the limiting done with the Gold.
sounded great.

[Andy Krehm]

Originally Posted by superburtm

dude now I want to to try a gold!
Hey with the soft saturation thing..could I sorta simulate that with soft limit function on my apogee??

It's not even close! I used an Apogee PSX-100 with Soft Limit for years and recently replaced it with the LavryGold.

The Apogee Soft Limit is an analog peak limiter and the Gold's SoftSat is digital.

Even though I was happy to replace the Apogee conversion with the superior LavryGold, I went out of my way to find another analog peak limiter b/c I did find an analog peak limiter just before the ADC useful. I bought the Pendulum PL-2 which works like the Apogee Soft Limit but is more versatile and sounds quite a bit better.

As for the SoftSat, it is not, at least IMO, something that can be used on any kind of a regular basis to replace the more regularly employed loudness techniques.

It really has a sound of its own unlike other digital limiters that I have, especially if they are not hit too hard. Maybe if Lavry had built more variations into it, such as 1 dB, 2 dB, etc. and maybe a way to control other aspects of it, it would be more useful.

Once in a while though, it really does the trick!

I wonder if Dan could, or would, modify the circuit for more user control?

[RoundBadge]

Originally Posted by Andy Krehm

Once in a while though, it really does the trick!

Yes,it worked great in this case..I very rarely use the Sat. circuits in my blues..
but the +3 setting hit it just right.

Originally Posted by Andy Krehm

I wonder if Dan could, or would, modify the circuit for more user control?

Yeah,That would be cool.

[RoundBadge]

Andy,you get your new LM-2 Mk-3 yet?

[nandoanalog]

I have a question.... Why is the Gold series so much more expensive than the Blue series?

8 channels of AD blue series cost 3300€

8 channels of AD gold series cost 24900€

Lavry Gold costs 7 times more. Does it costs 7 times more to build?

Or is it pure marketing stuff?

[Coyoteous]

- they're 7X better?

Now, I want to hear a "drum off" between superburtm and RoundBadge!

- love you guys' avatars...

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by nandoanalog

I have a question.... Why is the Gold series so much more expensive than the Blue series?

Because its made out of pure Gold.

[patrox247]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

Because its made out of pure Gold.

That's ridiculous! Only the faceplate is pure gold. The components are only gold plated.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by patrox247

That's ridiculous! Only the faceplate is pure gold. The components are only gold plated.

And the great thing about the faceplate is that it comes off so if you hook it up to your favorite gold chain you can wear it around your neck.

To me the makes it "worth its weight in gold".

[patrox247]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

And the great thing about the faceplate is that it comes off so if you hook it up to your favorite gold chain you can wear it around your neck.

To me the makes it "worth its weight in gold".

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[nandoanalog]

Anybody serious?

[patrox247]

Originally Posted by nandoanalog

Anybody serious?

The gold is an original design (from the ground up). It uses an analog circuit with huge headroom without any IC's (which is quite unique). It's performance is amazing, and the price probably reflects an increased build cost, but also the extensive research and developement.

[nandoanalog]

I understand that.

I honestly have no idea about how much it cost to build a gold series ADC. But does any of you think it costs more than 1500$? Even 1000$?

I know nothing about electronics, and I`m certainly not in a position similar to Mr. Lavry (so I have no idea about what involves being a manufacturer), but if I was a manufacturer of some high end gear like Lavry converters, I would sell it as cheap as possible. I would probably sell it direct to the public.

That would mean that my products all of a suden were available to a much more vast public, and even if my profit margin was much smaller, I would make much more money.

Mr. Lavry already makes much afordable gear than most brands out there. But there are many brands out there with some hell of inflated price tags on their products (just check out how the price tag has rise on those "cheap" toft consoles. They`re not cheap anymore.).

They do it probably because people have a tendency to think that "the more expensive, the best it is".

That`s the kind of philosophy that makes the world spin backwards.


( I might be wrong....)

[dave-G]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

And the great thing about the faceplate is that it comes off so if you hook it up to your favorite gold chain you can wear it around your neck.

pfff ... bend a nice arc in it, pop it in your mouth and voila, instant "grille"

-dave

[Adebar]

Originally Posted by patrox247

The gold is an original design (from the ground up). It uses an analog circuit with huge headroom without any IC's (which is quite unique). It's performance is amazing, and the price probably reflects an increased build cost, but also the extensive research and developement.

Yes it is quite unique. I only know of 2 other manufacturer offering converters with discrete design (without the ICs all the others use): dCS and EMM Labs. Not sure about the Prism Sound Dream AD.

[Andy Krehm]

Originally Posted by nandoanalog

I understand that.

I honestly have no idea about how much it cost to build a gold series ADC. But does any of you think it costs more than 1500$? Even 1000$?

I know nothing about electronics, and I`m certainly not in a position similar to Mr. Lavry (so I have no idea about what involves being a manufacturer), but if I was a manufacturer of some high end gear like Lavry converters, I would sell it as cheap as possible. I would probably sell it direct to the public.

That would mean that my products all of a suden were available to a much more vast public, and even if my profit margin was much smaller, I would make much more money.

Mr. Lavry already makes much afordable gear than most brands out there. But there are many brands out there with some hell of inflated price tags on their products (just check out how the price tag has rise on those "cheap" toft consoles. They`re not cheap anymore.).

They do it probably because people have a tendency to think that "the more expensive, the best it is".

That`s the kind of philosophy that makes the world spin backwards.


( I might be wrong....)

After you cover your costs (including R & D, etc), you set your retail prices according to what the market will bear. When considering this, one would be thinking who their target market is. This goes for anything that is for sale including mastering studio services.

Perhaps it's a coincidence, but most converters that are considered to be in the top tier are priced similarly and that includes LavryGold, Weiss, Prism, etc. The one exception may be the HEDD although I have heard that unit described by a learned mastering engineer as an A- amoungst A+s. I have never heard one but it's probably no coincidence that the price is somewhere in between the Lavry Blue/Black Benchmark and the LavryGold, Weiss, Prism group.

What is a lttle galling is that (IMO) none of the pricest converters are "7 times" better than the B level converters. However, they sound noticibly better and if you want the most pure conversion plus electronics that can be hit hard, you have to pay the price!

So the Lavry company has found the best of both world in selling the Blue/Black line to those that want good sounding, solid conversion while leaving the Gold to those who want what is considered to be the best, or one of the best.

Daniel Weiss so far chooses to remain only in the latter category. Of course he could make more profit by marketing a 2nd line but I suspect he doesn't want to offer anything but the best sounding unit he can produce.

[not_so_new]

So what does a Gold go for now days?

Also, isn't this product getting a little long in the tooth? I mean no disrespect, I know it is a great unit. Its just that with digital there is a technology curve and it seems that newer technology would have (or should have) rendered the Gold to the "old technology" back burner by now. It's a testament to the quality of the original design that it has stood the test of time this long but is it really that far in font of newer designs? That is a serious rather than rhetorical question because I really don't know and I am interested in finding out.

[Fretbored]

I wore my Lavry faceplate like you guys said. Everybody made fun of me.

[Bob Olhsson]

Most new digital technology has been getting cheaper rather than better. In fact I've been told that some of the very best sounding A to D chips are no longer available. This is why a number of high-end converters such as the Pacific Microsonics are no longer made.

The Gold doesn't use A to D chips which makes it real expensive but at least it should remain available for a long time.

[Adam Dempsey]

(I had a whole reply typed then GS and Safari folded on each other & up & went!)

fwiw, we love the Gold MkIII here. The Soft Sat is just not a peak limiter but is said to be designed to mimick the saturation curve of tape, much like the "old" 16bit only Sony DAL-1000, the first dedicated digital limiter for mastering (see: AES, 1998), which also was not a peak limiter but more of an upwards compressor, also with a type A & B functions for 6dB & 3dB gain.

So Soft Sat can have a sound, tending to raise harmonics/overtones of elements in a mix, dependent on the source and its dynamics. IOW, take note: these things are designed to sound musical, not to obliterate music for some "radio ready" myth!

[Lek]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

Yeah its one of the benefits.

The biggest though is when doing analog master transfers. I transfered a 1/2" master through the Gold, the Lavry Blue, the Apogee AD16X, Prism, HEDD 192 and the UA stereo converter.

Its one of the tests where you can really hear the strengths and weaknesses of a converter. Lets just say the Gold won convincingly. First time i heard a converter i could actually trust and not cringe when hearing a transfer.

I wish D. Lavry could make a 24 channel version just to do transfers from 2 inch 24 track.

I KNOW that cringing feeling - when transferring from my ATR102.
I am now on a HOLY QUEST to find a converter that sounds closest to my tape machine - final mix transfers as well as tracking transfers (unless I get my mm1200 soon!)

Thrill - I was possibly going to get a prism ada8xr, is the lavry gold that much better? I did a test last week with the prism, apogee ad16x, benchmark adc1, and mytek 192, and really liked the prism for it's outstanding detail, but haven't yet tested it in my own studio for tape transfers. Should I wait and try the gold?

[lucey]

Originally Posted by Lek

I KNOW that cringing feeling - when transferring from my ATR102.
I am now on a HOLY QUEST to find a converter that sounds closest to my tape machine - final mix transfers as well as tracking transfers (unless I get my mm1200 soon!)

Thrill - I was possibly going to get a prism ada8xr, is the lavry gold that much better? I did a test last week with the prism, apogee ad16x, benchmark adc1, and mytek 192, and really liked the prism for it's outstanding detail, but haven't yet tested it in my own studio for tape transfers. Should I wait and try the gold?

Definitely try the Gold, I'll bet you prefer it. The Pacific Micro is a joy, but I'd get the Gold if it died. The MM1200 is best with Flux heads IMO.

[Lek]

Originally Posted by lucey

Definitely try the Gold, I'll bet you prefer it. The Pacific Micro is a joy, but I'd get the Gold if it died. The MM1200 is best with Flux heads IMO.

Thanks Brian, how is your 24 track doing? Much different than the 16?

[lucey]

Originally Posted by Lek

Thanks Brian, how is your 24 track doing? Much different than the 16?

My wife has been making some really nice records with both 16 and 24 trk headstacks. Flux Magnetics Play on the 16, Flux Rec and Play on the 24, and rolling guides on both - a must.

[lucey]

Originally Posted by RoundBadge

Hey guys .I have some Blues and played with a Gold yesterday.
sounded great,blew away the apogee 16x's..
unfortuneately couldn't do a direct comparison to my Blues.
Anybody do a direct A/B between the two?

Gold is very accurate without the IC smear of most high enders. Blues are not as nice as the Mytek 8x192 which is not the Gold, still an IC tonality. Apogees have their RnR color.