Prism Sound Over Killer VS Apogee Rosetta Soft Limit

[Lion]

Hi,

i would like to know your impressions about the quality of the OVER KILLER from PRISM SOUND and the SOFT LIMIT (Rosetta800).
Because i have a Rosetta800 (Soft Limit work great for recording individual tracks) but i've seen that Prism Sound make a separate OVER KILLER which is the same that it come into the ADA-8XR and mybe for critical operation like mastering the Prism Sound is better ?
What do you think ?

Thanks.

[Brad Blackwood]

IIRC, the Prism over killers are simply back to back zener diodes - IOW about the same as analog clipping. Quite different than the Apogee soft limit...

[Lion]

Originally Posted by Brad Blackwood

IIRC, the Prism over killers are simply back to back zener diodes - IOW about the same as analog clipping. Quite different than the Apogee soft limit...

Thanks for the reply Brad, what do you think about the Apogee soft limit in mastering situation ?

[Lion]

Originally Posted by Brad Blackwood

IIRC, the Prism over killers are simply back to back zener diodes -...

And it cost more than 200$ !!! Thanks for the info

[mac black]

I have the Rosetta 200 and ADA-8 and the DA-2 ... The Prism overkills are more natural while I find the Apogee more crunchy if that makes sense, never the less, I rarely use the overkills when I record or mix (only is I want to get a quick loud mix vibe), I do use it if I master records (Im not a mastering guy but sometimes its nice to help a friend in need... ).
The Apogee is one of my my backup converter ... meaning I don't use it anymore, Lavry DA-10 would be my second choice after the Prism.
When I redo my studio, I'd want to patch the converters so I can listen to mixes via all of them, the Lavry did something special on a few records but the prism is just a winner everytime.

[Lion]

Originally Posted by mac black

I have the Rosetta 200 and ADA-8 and the DA-2 ... The Prism overkills are more natural while I find the Apogee more crunchy if that makes sense, never the less, I rarely use the overkills when I record or mix (only is I want to get a quick loud mix vibe), I do use it if I master records (Im not a mastering guy but sometimes its nice to help a friend in need... ).
The Apogee is one of my my backup converter ... meaning I don't use it anymore, Lavry DA-10 would be my second choice after the Prism.
When I redo my studio, I'd want to patch the converters so I can listen to mixes via all of them, the Lavry did something special on a few records but the prism is just a winner everytime.

Thanks for the comparison, it seems to be normal that the Prism win because the converters are better than the apogee in your case, i'm sure if i have the choice i will not hesitate too.
But do you think that if i replace the Apogee soft limit by a pair of prism over kill, i will improve my configuration for stereo mix use ?

Thanks

[Brad Blackwood]

It's been close to 10 years since I used any Apogee converters so to say my opinion of their fuctions would be useless is an understatement!

[Lion]

Originally Posted by Brad Blackwood

It's been close to 10 years since I used any Apogee converters so to say my opinion of their fuctions would be useless is an understatement!

I have a bad english but if i understand, you advises me to change my converters if i want to make some good mastering use and not trying to improve my actual configuration which is not really good for that ?

[Andy Krehm]

I used the Apogee Soft Limit many masters when the Apogee PSX-100 was my main analog loop converter.

The Apogee Soft Limit is an analog limiter but when I decided to upgrade my converters, none of the ones I was interested in had one. Most have digital limiters so when I upgraded to Lavry Gold converters, I was happy to find the Pendulum PL-2 JFET/MOSFET Analog Peak Limiter.

It serves the same function as the Apogee Soft Limit did but sounds much more transparent. Before selling my PSX-100, I did a careful comparison of the two analog limiters and it was no contest.

[Brad Blackwood]

Originally Posted by Lion

I have a bad english but if i understand, you advises me to change my converters if i want to make some good mastering use and not trying to improve my actual configuration which is not really good for that ?

No, no, no - I'm just saying that it's been so long since I used their converters, my opinion is out of date. They may be amazing or awful, I don't know.

[Lion]

Originally Posted by Andy Krehm

I used the Apogee Soft Limit many masters when the Apogee PSX-100 was my main analog loop converter.

The Apogee Soft Limit is an analog limiter but when I decided to upgrade my converters, none of the ones I was interested in had one. Most have digital limiters so when I upgraded to Lavry Gold converters, I was happy to find the Pendulum PL-2 JFET/MOSFET Analog Peak Limiter.

It serves the same function as the Apogee Soft Limit did but sounds much more transparent. Before selling my PSX-100, I did a careful comparison of the two analog limiters and it was no contest.

I was thinking that the Lavry come with a very good soft limit ?
Does the pendulum make a job like a L2 or a brickwall limiter ?

[Lion]

Originally Posted by Brad Blackwood

No, no, no - I'm just saying that it's been so long since I used their converters, my opinion is out of date. They may be amazing or awful, I don't know.

Ok excuse me... I understand this time.
i really have to work my english !!!!

[Brad Blackwood]

Originally Posted by Lion

Ok excuse me... I understand this time.
i really have to work my english !!!!

No, your engllish is fine - upon re-reading my post, I can see how disjointed it is...

And it's my 'natural' language!

[Lion]

Originally Posted by Brad Blackwood

No, your engllish is fine - upon re-reading my post, I can see how disjointed it is...

And it's my 'natural' language!

P.s : I've seen your studio configuration, very good one !!!
What do you prefer between Lavry and Crane Song converters?

[Brad Blackwood]

Originally Posted by Lion

P.s : I've seen your studio configuration, very good one !!!
What do you prefer between Lavry and Crane Song converters?

I like the Lavry (well, mine are old, they are called dbTech) DACs and the latest Crane Song ADC - very nice, musical combination!

[Lion]

Originally Posted by Brad Blackwood

I like the Lavry (well, mine are old, they are called dbTech) DACs and the latest Crane Song ADC - very nice, musical combination!

Nice.
The Crane song seems to be very interesting (good convertors and can ad coloration).

I think i will be interested by changing my ADC converters (when i have the money!!!) to a Lavry or a Crane Song. For the moment i have to use my Apogee. However the Apogee sound good but for mastering ther is better gear...

[Lagerfeldt]

I don't find the soft limit on Apogee converters are good for anything actually. Even during recording, just keep your levels a bit lower - not really a big issue in 24 bits. Once you start soft limiting it won't come back.

Later there are much better ways of controlling peaks or transients, especially for mastering.

[Lion]

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt

I don't find the soft limit on Apogee converters are good for anything actually. Even during recording, just keep your levels a bit lower - not really a big issue in 24 bits. Once you start soft limiting it won't come back.

Later there are much better ways of controlling peaks or transients, especially for mastering.

What is for you the best way for controlling peaks or transient for mastering ?

[Lagerfeldt]

Some peaks can be controlled by compression but as you often want to avoid pumping or obvious compression artifacts you'll need to control transient in other ways.

Personally I use a combination of compression (two compressors usually, one slow, low and deep, one fast and sightly harder in the top dynamics), Sony Oxford limiter and/or Waves L2 and/or clipping (soft/hard or straight clip). Soft clipping usually distorts more but usually isn't as harsh sounding as straight clipping. Clipping is either done by software clipping, raising gain in the DAW at 64 bits or A/D clipping. A/D clipping sounds slightly different (more distorted in my case) but it suits some types of music well.

I don't find one size fits all so I tend to experiment for 1 or 2 minutes which clipping sounds best (if any clipping at all).

I have to emphasize that you can't get very loud levels just by clipping, you need to have the right frequency balance first, then regular compression (one or two comps), perhaps multiband (if necessary), and then you can look into limiting and clipping.

Be careful using much or any clipping for material to be played on air as it can sound quite awful.

[Lion]

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt

Some peaks can be controlled by compression but as you often want to avoid pumping or obvious compression artifacts you'll need to control transient in other ways.

Personally I use a combination of compression (two compressors usually, one slow, low and deep, one fast and sightly harder in the top dynamics), Sony Oxford limiter and/or Waves L2 and/or clipping (soft/hard or straight clip). Soft clipping usually distorts more but usually isn't as harsh sounding as straight clipping. Clipping is either done by software clipping, raising gain in the DAW at 64 bits or A/D clipping. A/D clipping sounds slightly different (more distorted in my case) but it suits some types of music well.

I don't find one size fits all so I tend to experiment for 1 or 2 minutes which clipping sounds best (if any clipping at all).

I have to emphasize that you can't get very loud levels just by clipping, you need to have the right frequency balance first, then regular compression (one or two comps), perhaps multiband (if necessary), and then you can look into limiting and clipping.

Be careful using much or any clipping for material to be played on air as it can sound quite awful.

Thanks.
I use the L2 too and the TC Brickwall (powercore version) and L2007 which work fine depend on the source. I have to try the Sony Oxford.