Speakers for master. Hi-FI ? (y/n)

[ONDRAY]

I've been looking at some industry used mastering speakers and the prices is insane, not something I can afford for the level of mastering I'm doing. So instead of using my reference monitors I'm wondering if picking up a pair of Hi-Fi pro-Consumer speakers will do a better job.

So the question is should I continue to use my studio near-fields or get Pro-consumer Hi-Fi speaker to better represent what the end consumer will hear. I've been looking at these. The prices are up to $2000 for the pair.

Totem Acoustic - Floor Standing - Hawk

Reference Models:Studio 40

FOCAL-JMlab loudspeakers home theater loudspeaker systems, audiophile hifi speaker kits, car audio tuning

Please note I'm providing low cost mastering for Electronic dance music for artists who can't afford the $300 per track cost. All mastering is done digital with a powercore right now, but as I get more business I'm trying to expand slowly.

your thoughts

[dementedchord]

if one were to want to use hifi speakers under these circumstances i would stay away from the more unusual brands.... i would look for B+W and/or KEF if i were you.... and do consider the used market... these guy's have a tendency to change components like (insert euphimism here) and there are good deals to be had...

[ONDRAY]

A dealer near me actually has KEF, I'll go in and have a listen.

So what you're saying is that yes use Audiophile Hi-Fi speakers instead of near-feild monitors?

[Greg Reierson]

Also look at smaller PMC models. Try places like Audiogon.com for good deals on used speakers.


Greg Reierson
Rare Form Mastering

[carlsaff]

+1 for PMC. Revered by engineers and audiophiles alike, and for good reason.

Dynaudio also makes speakers that work well in both worlds.

[Cellotron]

I really like the Totem Acoustics Hawk as a great sounding speaker with low footprint for hifi home listening use - but certainly wouldn't want to use them for mastering - it's two way design and lack of accurate bottom extension makes it too limited for this application to my ear.

I haven't heard the other two models in your list so I can't comment on them.

If $2000 is your max budget I suggest you get the best bang for your budget by looking at used monitors via AudiogoN high end audio auctions, classifieds, hifi chat

ALWAYS audition used monitors first before purchasing though!!! - as the shape of drivers might vary widely - and taste in monitors is an incredibly subjective thing.

A couple "sleeper" models that you could probably easily get for your $2k max are the Alon IV's & Alon V's and the Thiel 3.5 or 3.6 - while not my first choices given a larger budget any of these would make good "starter" mastering monitors to me.

If you can get a larger budget I'd look at Dunlavy Althea, SC-III's and SC-IV's and B&W 802

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[bcgood]

NHT Super Zeros with accompanying subwoofer, custom cross overs. circa 1995 woodgrain, not easy to find now...

They use this specific configuration of speakers to mix at the San Francisco Philharmonic.

Ser. No A450- 0032089

bcgood

[Thomas W. Bethe]

We use ALON IVs here in both rooms and I find them an exceptional speaker. Their new price was about $4500 for the pair and we paid around $2500 a pair for them used. They are full range and do not need a sub woofer unless you are doing lots of hip hop or reggae. Best of luck! If you do get them use the CARDAS room setup method for best results. See here Cardas Audio

[807Recordings]

Originally Posted by ONDRAY

I've been looking at some industry used mastering speakers and the prices is insane, not something I can afford for the level of mastering I'm doing. So instead of using my reference monitors I'm wondering if picking up a pair of Hi-Fi pro-Consumer speakers will do a better job.

So the question is should I continue to use my studio near-fields or get Pro-consumer Hi-Fi speaker to better represent what the end consumer will hear. I've been looking at these. The prices are up to $2000 for the pair.

Totem Acoustic - Floor Standing - Hawk

Reference Models:Studio 40

FOCAL-JMlab loudspeakers home theater loudspeaker systems, audiophile hifi speaker kits, car audio tuning

Please note I'm providing low cost mastering for Electronic dance music for artists who can't afford the $300 per track cost. All mastering is done digital with a powercore right now, but as I get more business I'm trying to expand slowly.

your thoughts

Focal actuall does make some really high end studio stuff under their JMlab name I believe. I would put their highend speakers up there with B&W, Wilson Audio, etc. One thing though I have found though I don't know the specific model you are looking at is I found them to have a bright top end. With really good amplification and source that can become a very revealing sound. On lesser equipment it can be to in your face. Either way I often found the speakers to need equipment more than their cost.

Totem if I remember correctly does everything by ear in his design. Don't quote me on that but I remember many people commenting on this and how he uses no test equipment. I find them to sound really nice with some good tube amps in a hifi setting but I don't know about studio.

Tannoy makes some good speaker, PMC, etc, where the only real difference in their pro stuff is the powered option and different more rugged finishes.

[ONDRAY]

had a listen to the totem hawks in the store, they sound pretty nice in their environment, mine is not as large. For under $3000 it's not a bad set.

thanks for all the input.

[Sam Lord]

This builder is very good, haven't heard these, but take a look ($2100/pr + shipping):
V Speakers by Von Schweikert
buy here:
http://www.higherfi.com/order_vsa.htm
Outstanding reputation.

[807Recordings]

Originally Posted by Sam Lord

This builder is very good, haven't heard these, but take a look ($2100/pr + shipping):
V Speakers by Von Schweikert
buy here:
http://www.higherfi.com/order_vsa.htm
Outstanding reputation.

I heard the Von flagship speakers a few years ago and I would put them against the best in the business. They where awesome. Not sure about their entry level stuff though.

[Rasmus Faber]

Since you say you master electronic dance music specifically maybe it would make sense to master with the dance floor in mind, rather than the home stereo or other more "normal" enviroment?

I have been thinking about getting an actual PA system for this purpose, which would resemble a club system much better.

Just a thought..

[ONDRAY]

I have a P.A. rig, thing is it takes allot of room to set it up in the studio and you'll lose your hearing mastering on it since you have to crank the power to the P.A. for the cones to be able to produce the freq. range that they should be at. I spin out at clubs enough times and have a good sense of how tracks that are mixed and mastered in my home studio will relate to on the dance floor.

But good point, wondering if anyone actually uses a P.A. setup for mastering, anyone?

[807Recordings]

Originally Posted by ONDRAY

I have a P.A. rig, thing is it takes allot of room to set it up in the studio and you'll lose your hearing mastering on it since you have to crank the power to the P.A. for the cones to be able to produce the freq. range that they should be at. I spin out at clubs enough times and have a good sense of how tracks that are mixed and mastered in my home studio will relate to on the dance floor.

But good point, wondering if anyone actually uses a P.A. setup for mastering, anyone?

Best dance mastering studios I have seen are usually ones that also master other music. Most the speakers I have seen are Tannoy, Wilson Audio, PMC, etc.

PA's very in price and the type that good clubs have can easily get into 7 figure costs like Funktion One, Turbo Sound, Dynacord, to name a few. I worked at a club and setup and ran the Dynacord rig before it the club shut down and another point people don't understand is that large PA's are not set for a flat Freq. responce. We hear different at different sound levels and can take different amounts of sound differently at say 88dB compared to 120dB. Also damping factors and the sound of bass changes with the amount of people in the room and of course tempreture from people sweating and also have to be taken into consideration when you are using a PA for sound. It can take months to get a top flight PA into shape and tweaked in.

Either way get the right tools for the right job. Fullrange monitors make a huge difference in productions and often I hear when guys mixed down on small nearfields or very good refrence monitors. One thing a top flight club install will show you is the extremes in low end to high end and dynamics.

I like the analogy of film where sure HDTV looks great but it can't hold anything to an IMAX system and those little mistakes become huge on the large screen in ways that is hard to imagine. ITs just a different perspective and your monitors are the windows into the world.

[DSD_Mastering]

Originally Posted by Sam Lord

This builder is very good, haven't heard these, but take a look ($2100/pr + shipping):
V Speakers by Von Schweikert
Outstanding reputation.

I had the VR-9SE for a while and loved them. I felt that they gave an artificially larger image that was recorded on acoustic/solo instruments and solo voice. They were great on large-scale rock and orchestra though. Since the low end is self-powered, there's no want for more bass! I was actually thinking of using the VR-2 or VR-4jr for my Post room.
I'm using the Wilson Audio WATT/Puppy surround system now for Mastering. I don't miss the Von's at all.

Regards,
Bruce

[807Recordings]

Originally Posted by DSD_Mastering

I had the VR-9SE for a while and loved them. I felt that they gave an artifically larger image that was recorded on acoustic/solo instruments and solo voice. They were great on large scale rock and orchestra though. Since the low end is self-powered, there's no want for more bass! I was actually thinking of using the VR-2 or VR-4jr for my Post room.
I'm using the Wilson Audio WATT/Puppy surround system now for Mastering. I don't miss the Von's at all.

Regards,
Bruce

What versions? I heard the 8 series just a short time ago with Krell and Esoteric digital front ends and we ran them against the 7 series and wow they really did make them go that extra bit further. Wrong gear Wilsons suck but the right gear they sound awesome and very accurate.

[Sid Viscous]

Originally Posted by 807Recordings

Wrong gear Wilsons suck but the right gear they sound awesome and very accurate.

For the love of gawd don't let Dave Wilson hear you say that!

[DSD_Mastering]

Originally Posted by 807Recordings

What versions? I heard the 8 series just a short time ago with Krell and Esoteric digital front ends and we ran them against the 7 series and wow they really did make them go that extra bit further. Wrong gear Wilsons suck but the right gear they sound awesome and very accurate.

I just got the new WP 8 system a month ago. I had the 7 series for a couple of years. I'm running them with Pass Labs XA-160 amps, EMM Labs converters and all JP$ Labs Aluminata cabling! thumbsup

Regards,
Bruce

[807Recordings]

Originally Posted by DSD_Mastering

I just got the new WP 8 system a month ago. I had the 7 series for a couple of years. I'm running them with Pass Labs XA-160 amps, EMM Labs converters and all JP$ Labs Aluminata cabling! thumbsup

Regards,
Bruce

Nice!! the Pass IMO are way more transparent than the Krell stuff. Some say the Krell is better at bass but I find it is a little bit overdone and the overall sound a tad more dry. Must be great to hear some good DSD and analog on that setup.

Great Mastering speakers and so glad to hear your not using Bryston on them. I know one house who will remain nameless who was using the Bryston 7B for his Grand Slamms. Also kept the speakers on the casters. Such a shame the sound he was missing.

[Reptil]

a few years ago I used Final electrostats. the big ones. (used to be the 1.4 now is 1000i) I think I posted before about this some time ago, oh well, they rock. The company has switched owners and is now totally bad taste crappy. (previous owner and cool person M. Smits - where is he? Having lunch with Burguss?? ) If one can get past the emesis inducing initial presentation, and less than completely satisfying experience with these people, these are actually worth checking out. My old pair is now in the post studio neighbouring the altiverb ppl. they do big orchestral scores and other film stuff. We tested against a pair of big Genelecs, and they ate the genelecs for lunch. (like they do most other hifi and studio systems) They do take some time to get used to, because of the total absence of cone and driver distortion. (which as you all know is percieved as loudness by our brain) Dynamic response and stereo placement is out of this world, and also takes some getting used to. Anyone worried about low end response, 40 Hz is what we could clearly distinguish. Both dynamics and tonal information was clearly there. Something I've yet to experience on any other system.

I still miss those big ones.
Now where is mr. Smits when you need him?

[Blackwater]

REALLY REALLY LIKEING MY B&W 805's. Paid 2K. So happy I did!

Chris