Mixing for Mastering

[PhatStax Drums]

Hi all,

I'm working with some long-time area musicians recording some of their live gigs with mostly ribbon mics through AEA TRP pre's into an Alesis HD24. Due to working musicians' budget constraints I may be providing a mix to a well-respected area mastering house. I'm currently mixing on Cubase LE I guess it is, and using Voxengo plug-ins.

On the one hand, I want to present a working/evaluation mix that's as nice to listen to as possible. On the other hand, I've been told NOT to present a fully-compressed, finalized mix, to the mastering house?

I've been compressing each individual channel as I see fit to control vocals, bring out drums, etc. etc. Can't imagine not presenting it that way, unless of course we spring to have the entire thing mixed by someone who does it full-time. Unfortunately there are budget considerations here.

Would it be good to simply do the best-sounding mix that I can, and then leave out all master-channel compression and processing?

I feel I'm doing pretty good-sounding recordings and mixes that hold up pretty well against at least some professionally-done product, at least on the level of effectively presenting a perfomance, nothing extremely fancy. I'd be happy to post an exerpt or two.

I'm stuck with Voxengo compressors and the built-in Cubase LE compressor, due to processor limitations I have to use the built-in Cubase on a per-channel basis but can use Voxengo's plug-in as long as it's on not too many channels....may get an outboard CPU parallel processor at some point.

Also, if I've missed a thread that already discusses this, my apologies, just point me there if you can, I couldn't easily find one.....

many thanks

Rob

[recall]

Light bus compression can be fine and is often what a track needs to glue it together I tend to stick to fairly low 1-2db of gain reduction. What I would shoot for is to provide a mix with a decent average rms of between -22 to -18/19 db with the peaks at -6 to -4 ish this gives plenty of headroom to the ME while still allowing you to work as you see fit with compression. Also can be good to print alternate mixes ie: with/without master bus processing. vocal up/vocal down 1/2db, bass up/down etc. I don't mean you shouldn't commit to your main mix just that these alternates will give you and the ME a few useful options if you need them in the studio.

Hopefully some more experienced ME's will chime in.

[PhatStax Drums]

Many thanks, much appreciated! And I'm sure there must be a thread on this already somewhere, and/or a good book or article that covers it, any leads would be appreciated. I'm a drummer, what can I say, couldn't find a thread on it in the time I have...duh...

thanks again for the level and alternate mix advice

[finetuner]

Hi Rob,
Yes, just make the mix sound good to you and leave master-bus compression for mastering as much as you can. As Recall pointed out just a touch of glue or color is ok as long as you leave enough dynamics and headroom.

Two good books on mastering, including sections on how to prepare a mix for mastering are:

- The Mastering Engineer's Handbook by Bobby Owsinski
- Mastering Audio by Bob Katz

The first one treats a lot of topics based on interviews with top mastering engineers.
The second one is probably the best in depth source of information on mastering you'll ever see while still maintaining a light touch and sense of humor.
As you can see, both are about mastering but they're a very good read for anyone involved in recording or processing audio.

Peter

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by finetuner

Yes, just make the mix sound good to you

You should have just left it there without adding the other stuff.

[masteringhouse]

Originally Posted by recall

Light bus compression can be fine and is often what a track needs to glue it together I tend to stick to fairly low 1-2db of gain reduction. What I would shoot for is to provide a mix with a decent average rms of between -22 to -18/19 db with the peaks at -6 to -4 ish this gives plenty of headroom to the ME while still allowing you to work as you see fit with compression. Also can be good to print alternate mixes ie: with/without master bus processing. vocal up/vocal down 1/2db, bass up/down etc. I don't mean you shouldn't commit to your main mix just that these alternates will give you and the ME a few useful options if you need them in the studio.

Hopefully some more experienced ME's will chime in.

Sums things up very well.

Also don't perform sample rate conversion on the tracks or use normalization, etc. and leave enough room at the head and tail for fades

Overall, process the tracks as needed so that compromises will not need to be made to the overall mix, this includes:

- Removing noise(s)
- de-essing vocals or hats (if needed)
- balanced EQ between tracks (one track isn't too bright while another being too dull)
- Use effects as needed (don't expect reverb or delays to be added during mastering except to cover up issues in a bad mix or edit)
- listen for problems in the tracks like a bass guitar that is uneven in frequency response or vocals levels that are loud in some sections while too soft in others(compression/EQ issues)
- overall imaging (left/right and front/back)


In other words, create the best mix possible.

[aivoryuk]

i would also add to check the mix on several speakers/listening environments, if it sounds about right on them all then its a good sign.

[Franco]

Present what you consider your best mix possible. The good thing is that you have the ability to go back and change things in your mix as the mastering engineer may suggest. A pro masterer should be able to spot problems in your mix and be very specific as to what you need to change, so don't worry, send it to them and if there are any adjustments that need to be made for the mix to translate into a better master, they should let you know.

[lucey]

Originally Posted by Franco

... so don't worry, send it to them and if there are any adjustments that need to be made for the mix to translate into a better master, they should let you know.

I would suggest the opposite ... worry a lot ... so that you work very hard. But yes, nothing is forever until it's duplicated.

I only rejects mixes that are way far gone ... and that's rare. So unless the mixer specifically asks for pre-mastering comments and we get into a co-creative process I roll with it. Other tips here.

[PhatStax Drums]

Thanks again everybody...great link in the previous post, too. I think I've got it. Yeah, don't worry, no quickie track normalizations here (yikes---why use a Royer R-121 into an AEA TRP, if you're going to do that...)...I'm VERY conscious of keeping everything as clean as possible and applying tube warmth, individual track compression, etc., only as needed to bring out sounds we want. I'll keep any master we do send out within -10 to -3 db or so and no master bus processing (or send two alternates, maybe, but definitely one with nothing touched on the master bus).

[Auslander]

Personally, I prefer not to touch the stereo buss with anything, and keep all the dynamics in the mix. That way the mastering engineer's hands aren't tied in any way, and he/she has free rein to use anything they want.

[natpub]

Originally Posted by Auslander

Personally, I prefer not to touch the stereo buss with anything, and keep all the dynamics in the mix. That way the mastering engineer's hands aren't tied in any way, and he/she has free rein to use anything they want.

Neil,

You didnt comp the mix buss on "Bliss" at Granny's? Not even a smidge? Was that balanced mix a result of all the "by-hand" levelling and those endless hours of auto-fades and mutes?

Do you still work this way, to this day????!! Even when you work hybrid or all digi?

(BTW, I still copy most those mute/fade and reverse-roll passes I watched from you. Thanks millions, .)

Somehow, there is nothing like analogue and an SSL or nifty Neve with automat to make the thrill.

As an SSL god, do you worry what PG is doing with the company these days?

Hugs,
KT

[present]

Originally Posted by natpub

As an SSL god, do you worry what PG is doing with the company these days?

What is he doing with SSL? I would think that an artist like PG would be good to a company like that. But I really know little about this. Could you elaborate?

regards
rogier

[Auslander]

Originally Posted by natpub

Neil,

You didnt comp the mix buss on "Bliss" at Granny's? Not even a smidge? Was that balanced mix a result of all the "by-hand" levelling and those endless hours of auto-fades and mutes?

Do you still work this way, to this day????!! Even when you work hybrid or all digi?

(BTW, I still copy most those mute/fade and reverse-roll passes I watched from you. Thanks millions, .)

Somehow, there is nothing like analogue and an SSL or nifty Neve with automat to make the thrill.

As an SSL god, do you worry what PG is doing with the company these days?

Hugs,
KT

Hi Kurt,

No, I didn't compress the mix bus at all, at least not for the final mixes. I do occasionally fool around with the SSL quad buss compressor just to see how the mix is working with a little bit of compression, but I always switch it out again before I commit to tape, as it were. It's fun for a listening vibe, but if I compress the mix at that point, I honestly think the mastering engineer's hands would be tied.

These days I do all my automation in the box in PT, and effectively use either SSL or Neve for EQ and summing.

I like what PG is doing with SSL. I'm glad the company is still going strong.

[natpub]

Originally Posted by present

What is he doing with SSL? I would think that an artist like PG would be good to a company like that. But I really know little about this. Could you elaborate?

regards
rogier

If you have followed the whole SSL thing, bottom line is they are going towards rack mount gear the vaguely replicates slices of channels from various popular era consoles.

Since the advent of the PG control, the whole thing appears geared towards more of the pro-sumer and home-sumer area, and less towards the elaborate and expensive long consoles they are famous for.

With that movement comes increasing outsourced parts that in some minds, decrease the earlier quality of the products.

IMHO, I would sooner rack up a unit of one of the small boutique houses, or someone extravigant, such as GML or Gordan, than I would the new SSL. I am rather dismayed by the agreements between Guitar Center and SSL. That said, their new hybrid consoles are increasingly interesting, though such talk becomes out of my price-range. I can and do, however, often go to GC and listen--which is why I have not bought any new SSL rack units.


regards,

KT

[natpub]

Originally Posted by Auslander

Hi Kurt,

No, I didn't compress the mix bus at all, at least not for the final mixes. ...

Mr.K,

What Neve console was used at Granny's? Do you recall? I really liked both its utility and sound, which is not said much for many latter day Neves.

Also, while I have the chance, would you recommend a home studio forking out the bucks to get an original Trident channel strip, like A Range, or such? As I recall, you said the EQ was outstanding?? <foggy memory, that>. You being an original Trident participant, I am curious--since the "grey market" cost of such strips has gone insane, and the sordid conflict between the claimants to Trident sound has become so pop:-)



Thx,


K

[Auslander]

Originally Posted by natpub

Mr.K,

What Neve console was used at Granny's? Do you recall? I really liked both its utility and sound, which is not said much for many latter day Neves.

Also, while I have the chance, would you recommend a home studio forking out the bucks to get an original Trident channel strip, like A Range, or such? As I recall, you said the EQ was outstanding?? <foggy memory, that>. You being an original Trident participant, I am curious--since the "grey market" cost of such strips has gone insane, and the sordid conflict between the claimants to Trident sound has become so pop:-)



Thx,


K

I think it was a Neve VR at Grannys.

I'm not a fan of Trident stuff, although that might sound sacrilegious. Too hard for my tastes. I think the layout of the old A Range and the TSM was excellent from an ergonomic standpoint though.

[quantumpych]

hi Rob, glad to see you're getting some great responses. the only suggestions i have are;

- mix as quietly as possble
- cross reference on a home stereo and a car stereo you're familiar with
- if you're very familar with a pair, check mixes on headphones
- as mentioned earlier, always check that RMS is around -20dbfs and peak is no more than -6dbfs

then just print as 32bit float or 24bit fixed with the sample rate you used to mix, DO NOT RE-SAMPLE, and upload to your FTP or your mastering houses FTP. done. enjoy the rest of your weekend man!