Help mastering a Pop/Rock Ballad ITB

Oroz · 21st April 2007

I'm producing, recording and mixing a Punk/Rock/Pop band and we don't have enough budget to Master our record properly so I'm mastering it ITB in my studio (like I've done with basically all my clients for the same reason). I'm using Protools and Massey's L2007 basically, with a little touch of EQ here and there. Now, the problem that I'm having is with the "ballad" of the album. I can't make it as loud as the other songs and by that I mean to make the loudest part of the song, the chorus, as loud as the others (the song has dynamics). I've tried lowering the bass in the mix to see if that was eating up a lot of energy from the mastering process and it helpt a little but I'm not there yet, I've also tried to give it a little more punch with upward compression (been reading Mastering Audio) and it helpt but not enough.

What tips and recommendations can you give to pull this off? How can I make the ballad as loud as the other songs?

Thomas W. Bethe · 21st April 2007

See this tread......suddenly im mastering, some advice? and follow the advice given there also use the SEARCH function and find the other 1000000000000000 posts just like yours on this web board. This is not a flame but a simple statement of fact.

Masterer · 21st April 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oroz

How can I make the ballad as loud as the other songs?

You can't.

Make the ballad as loud as you can without making it sound bad, then LOWER the rest of the songs to match IT.

Now you're mastering!

Oroz · 22nd April 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe

See this tread......suddenly im mastering, some advice? and follow the advice given there also use the SEARCH function and find the other 1000000000000000 posts just like yours on this web board. This is not a flame but a simple statement of fact.

Well, I did a search and didn't found an answer to what I thought was a more direct question. Also, I'm not "suddenly into mastering.." I've been doing ITB mastering pretty much since I started recording, I just wanted to know if there was something that I was missing, something that could help.

Oroz · 22nd April 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masterer

You can't.

Make the ballad as loud as you can without making it sound bad, then LOWER the rest of the songs to match IT.

Now you're mastering!

I'm aware of that option but the entire album is going to sound softer and we all know that at the end, people want it loud. The other songs of the album are louder than the ballad but not super compressed, they're not extremely loud (if you compare them to other pro recordings, they're a little bit softer) so don't get me wrong, I'm trying to make them sound good and loud enough also but this ballad is giving me a little trouble to get there.

**Riccardo** · 22nd April 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masterer

You can't.

Make the ballad as loud as you can without making it sound bad, then LOWER the rest of the songs to match IT.

Now you're mastering!

Chris is right.
The only other "possible" option that comes to mind would be to re-address the mix and see if you can use a different approach........

Thomas W. Bethe · 23rd April 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oroz

Well, I did a search and didn't found an answer to what I thought was a more direct question. Also, I'm not "suddenly into mastering.." I've been doing ITB mastering pretty much since I started recording, I just wanted to know if there was something that I was missing, something that could help.

OK so now we know a bit more about you.

The suggestions you have gotten so far are good. Sometimes a ballad just is softer because it's a ballad. Not all songs on an album have to be LOUD. Contrast is good in some cases. If you have one soft song and all the rest of the songs are louder you can either find a way to make the ballad more in your face with eq and compression, or you can do as someone else suggested and bring the other songs down to the ballad's level. The final choice is up to you.

Best of luck and PLEASE let us know what you finally decided to do.

Oroz · 23rd April 2007

Thanks everyone for your replies.

I should add that we're talking about a punk/rock/pop kind of ballad, right? So the chorus is a strong one, with distorted guitars and that part is the one that I'm interested on being as loud as the other songs.

I tried a slightly different approach with EQ and that is helping.

I'll definitively let you know how everything turned out and maybe I'll post some audio examples also, by the way, here's a link to a couple of songs (not the ballad that we're taking about but another 2 songs of the same project, that's the volume that I'm trying to reach):

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/mp3-u...se-listen.html

It's in spanish, sorry if you don't undestand anything. And please tell me what you think, everything is welcomed! Thanks!

Masterer · 23rd April 2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oroz

I'm aware of that option but the entire album is going to sound softer and we all know that at the end, people want it loud. The other songs of the album are louder than the ballad but not super compressed, they're not extremely loud (if you compare them to other pro recordings, they're a little bit softer) so don't get me wrong, I'm trying to make them sound good and loud enough also but this ballad is giving me a little trouble to get there.

Well, what can you do?? There's is no magic trick here. Like Riccardo said, you could try remixing the song if you're the mixer.
No one can give you advice on how to make this happen other than smash the **** out of the ballad. You're clients will probably be thrilled. I'd go with lowering the rest of the record first, and see if they bite, then at least you attempted to do the right thing first.

Good luck with that.

kamikaze Digital · 2nd May 2007

If your not set with the order the tracks are layed out you may want to start with or end with the ballad, depending on the placement of that track and if the other songs have at least a slight difference in their loudness, then go from soft (ballad) to hard (hardest rock track)...or visa versa......

Mike

gurubuzz · 3rd May 2007

Try having your mastering plugins on a buss and then automate the audio fader on the track and iron out the volume changes(ride the fader) in the song before it hits the compressors...or make sure you are getting an even GR all the time.

this may squeeze a little more out of it.

also have an extra compressor limiter on the end of the chain and have a very low threshold and a mild ratio like 1.3:1, if you have a comp with auto gain compensation just raise the ratio until it sounds like crap and then back off a little.

I can make an acoustic guitar on its own sound louder than a whole thrash metal band .....nearly...

less crowded mixes are easier to sound louder ---- less to distort...??

Oroz · 1st June 2007

Here's a link to a sample of the ballad BFD vs DFH question? it's on post #17, I've made some changes to that version since but nothing drastic. Please tell me what you think. Also, I would like to comment that a Mastering House offered to master this song and sounded great but, as always, the artist wanted it louder and, as much as we don't want it to, people don't like softer sounding records at the end. I'll have to make a decision since we're still doing some final tweaks but to tell you the truth I want my clients to be happy with the results, so I think I'm gonna go with the louder version.

I'll post the two versions later so we can compare both. (Actually I can't remember exactly which version I used for this sample, the mastering house's version or mine

but will find out later).

Every comment is more than welcomed. Thanks!

21st April 2007	#2
Thomas W. Bethe Lives for gear Joined: Jan 2005 Location: Oberlin, Ohio Posts: 3,268 Verified Member 1 Review written	See this tread......suddenly im mastering, some advice? and follow the advice given there also use the SEARCH function and find the other 1000000000000000 posts just like yours on this web board. This is not a flame but a simple statement of fact. __________________ -TOM- Thomas W. Bethel Managing Director Acoustik Musik, Ltd. Room with a View Productions Oberlin, OH 44074 www.acoustikmusik.com Doing what you love is freedom. Loving what you do is happiness.

2nd May 2007	#10
kamikaze Digital Gear interested Joined: May 2007 Posts: 1	Track Order If your not set with the order the tracks are layed out you may want to start with or end with the ballad, depending on the placement of that track and if the other songs have at least a slight difference in their loudness, then go from soft (ballad) to hard (hardest rock track)...or visa versa...... Mike

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Critique my pop/rock ITB mix please....	KPHayes	Work In Progress / Advice Requested / Show & Tell / Artist Showcase / Mix-Offs	5	30th March 2007 01:55 PM
Pop/Rock Band Ive been working with-NUENDO ITB	lwr	Work In Progress / Advice Requested / Show & Tell / Artist Showcase / Mix-Offs	21	20th March 2007 08:18 PM
Need feedback as quick as possible (Pop/Rock Ballad)	dh80	Work In Progress / Advice Requested / Show & Tell / Artist Showcase / Mix-Offs	18	21st October 2006 09:36 AM
POP-ROCK mix done ITB...	jchadstopherhuez	Work In Progress / Advice Requested / Show & Tell / Artist Showcase / Mix-Offs	26	8th June 2005 01:31 AM
ITB Pop Rock mix. Let me have it.	Telecastr	Work In Progress / Advice Requested / Show & Tell / Artist Showcase / Mix-Offs	14	28th December 2004 07:24 AM

21st April 2007	#1
Oroz Lives for gear Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,348 Thread Starter	Help mastering a Pop/Rock Ballad ITB I'm producing, recording and mixing a Punk/Rock/Pop band and we don't have enough budget to Master our record properly so I'm mastering it ITB in my studio (like I've done with basically all my clients for the same reason). I'm using Protools and Massey's L2007 basically, with a little touch of EQ here and there. Now, the problem that I'm having is with the "ballad" of the album. I can't make it as loud as the other songs and by that I mean to make the loudest part of the song, the chorus, as loud as the others (the song has dynamics). I've tried lowering the bass in the mix to see if that was eating up a lot of energy from the mastering process and it helpt a little but I'm not there yet, I've also tried to give it a little more punch with upward compression (been reading Mastering Audio) and it helpt but not enough. What tips and recommendations can you give to pull this off? How can I make the ballad as loud as the other songs?

23rd April 2007	#8
Oroz Lives for gear Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,348 Thread Starter	Thanks everyone for your replies. I should add that we're talking about a punk/rock/pop kind of ballad, right? So the chorus is a strong one, with distorted guitars and that part is the one that I'm interested on being as loud as the other songs. I tried a slightly different approach with EQ and that is helping. I'll definitively let you know how everything turned out and maybe I'll post some audio examples also, by the way, here's a link to a couple of songs (not the ballad that we're taking about but another 2 songs of the same project, that's the volume that I'm trying to reach): http://www.gearslutz.com/board/mp3-u...se-listen.html It's in spanish, sorry if you don't undestand anything. And please tell me what you think, everything is welcomed! Thanks!

3rd May 2007	#11
gurubuzz Lives for gear Joined: Dec 2006 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 950	Try having your mastering plugins on a buss and then automate the audio fader on the track and iron out the volume changes(ride the fader) in the song before it hits the compressors...or make sure you are getting an even GR all the time. this may squeeze a little more out of it. also have an extra compressor limiter on the end of the chain and have a very low threshold and a mild ratio like 1.3:1, if you have a comp with auto gain compensation just raise the ratio until it sounds like crap and then back off a little. I can make an acoustic guitar on its own sound louder than a whole thrash metal band .....nearly... less crowded mixes are easier to sound louder ---- less to distort...??

1st June 2007	#12
Oroz Lives for gear Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,348 Thread Starter	Here's a link to a sample of the ballad BFD vs DFH question? it's on post #17, I've made some changes to that version since but nothing drastic. Please tell me what you think. Also, I would like to comment that a Mastering House offered to master this song and sounded great but, as always, the artist wanted it louder and, as much as we don't want it to, people don't like softer sounding records at the end. I'll have to make a decision since we're still doing some final tweaks but to tell you the truth I want my clients to be happy with the results, so I think I'm gonna go with the louder version. I'll post the two versions later so we can compare both. (Actually I can't remember exactly which version I used for this sample, the mastering house's version or mine but will find out later). Every comment is more than welcomed. Thanks!