suddenly im mastering, some advice?

[tikcor]

well heres the situation. yesterday a friend asked me to help him master a 14 track record hes doing and i agreed dispite having very little experience. theres still some mixing to be done, mainly vocals. we have 6 days.
were using a pair of yamaha msp7 and everythings going on in the box. the subwoofer was damaged about a week ago and is out of the picture.
the room is about 20x15ft, bricks and carpet, pretty comproised.
the mixes sound very top heavy. vocals sound like theyre in another room, overall the tracks sound aweful. but it has to get done and it has to be done there.
first let me ask if its safe to rely solely on the monitors considering the the mix was done with the sub. they have a switch on the back to work without the sub but still, i get the feeling that the top end wouldnt be so pronounced if he sub was pounding away. of course were referencing every thing today at a nieghboring studio to get a better idea..anyone ever have this kinda predicament?
secondly, eqing, limiting/compression... what am i paying attention to? what would you say is the most important thing to think about trying to achieve in mastering.
loud?
any plugins you guys cant live without? were using sonar/ winxp what are they and what do you use them for?
thanks
p

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by tikcor

and i agreed dispite having very little experience.

This says it all right there.

Why agree to do something you have very little experience in?

Would you do your own dental work? Corn or bunion surgery? How about fix your transmission? Do you do your own plumbing? Maybe make your own 3 piece suits?(if you do we should talk). Its funny we trust professionals we see everyday to do their tasks with no questions asked but when it comes to engineering its a whole other story.

Good luck anyways and it sounds like you should help "your friend" get the mixes right. It will make the next step go much easier.

[Tubefreak]

Hi Tikcor,

Although it is very kind of you to offer to help with mastering, you have to ask yourself if you really have something to offer. I don't mean this to be unkind, but just to be fair with you!

Clearly the mix leaves a lot to be desired. Mastering shouldn't be on your mind. You should focus on one thing: making the best possible mix. Mastering is useless if the mix is dreadful. Put all your attention and time to make it better. There a great people in other places on this website who can help you with this.

Making a crappy mix sound better is worthwhile! If this is already a problem, then the final steps of mastering will be even harder. It's better to have a great mix which isn't loud, then a loud mix which sounds like absolute crap.

Mastering is (also) about making final discussions to make sure the music will sound as good as possible on all playback systems. For this you would need a room and monitors on which you can rely and know exactly how they sounds. Which is not the case in your situation.

It takes a great man to recognize and accept his own limitations. Only a fool will pretend to be something he's not.

Maarten van Helden

[tikcor]

were both aware of my limitations...im not pretending anything. my main offer is my ears. i do want to help as much as i can though. the situation is as is, technically we could go thru and mix all the tracks agian but like i siad we have 6 days. theres no time. well be doing touch ups...and hopefully have two days left for the mastering.
so please answer my questions
most importantly, can i rely on these monitors...
some general techniques we can try when mastering
anything else..

[Silvertone]

Mastering will probably only slightly help the mix problems. If they are as bad as you state what I tell MY clients is to not spend the money mastering with me (yes, I actually turn away the business) but to spend the time and money getting the mix right. There's always a volume knob to make it loud at the end. Otherwise you are only putting lipstick on a pig.

Now to answer the question...
yes, you can master with those speakers as long as you know them and the room they are in very, very well. Otherwise it's all a guessing game.

Try listen from another room after mixing/mastering. Is there anything jumping out or lacking. Go outside, take a break come back in, is there anything that jumps out or lacking. Get away from the room while you are mixing or mastering, come back in and... see what jumps out at you or is lacking. See a theme here?

Truly let your ears be the judge and trust what you are hearing sense that is what you are bringing to the table. Your first impression of that mix or master will tell you a lot.

Also play the mixes for other people, trust me as you listen you'll hear things that you never did while you head was in 'the mix'. If you have to make excuses for anything in the mix, then you'll know you have to correct that. Works every time. I call it hearing through other peoples ears.

Good luck on the project with how you described it in your original post, it sounds like you are going to need it.

[tikcor]

ive had alot of experience mixing. ive even mastered my own stuff before when i was younger but all i really did was make everything louder, prolly ruined everything.
i never really experimented beyond that nor really needed to. my mixes were sent to someone else.
we dont have that option here. we might send the single out to someone but the rest we have to do.
and we gotta do now...
making it sound good, yeah naturally..but im looking for something more specific. any standards for radio? are they going to cut or boost anything?
what am i trying to aviod (besides distortion)
come on guys level with me here!
what am i trying to do?

[Bob Olhsson]

The principal goal of mastering is literally to avoid having the recording tossed in the wastebasket by reviewers, clubowners, salespeople, broadcasters and promotion people as they decide where they are going to focus their efforts. It's all about making the best possible first impression.

The mix seems to have made a pretty bad first impression on you. I'd first address anything obvious in the mix. Then you need to do your homework and study the recordings it is going to competing with right now in the marketplace to make sure that what you release measures up.

[Mgr]

Hi tikcor,

As your saying there is a lot to do with mixing (and you're skilled). I'm not a mastering engineer, but i do mix tracks, and if you have 6 days to do 14 tracks you'll have to mix perfecly 2 tracks a day or so.. which is pretty heavy for some very bad mixed tracks.

So my advice would be do the best you can to have the best mixes in this room with this monitors and no sub.

Then, if the people your working for need them tracks to be mastered, send them to some mastering people with very good skills and listening conditions (you can get cheap and fast mastering "studios" online, you'll get the best of your work and them work, and they'll not show up saying "you screwed the album !"

Just my "non mastering engineer" opinion

Cheers

[soundroid]

Originally Posted by tikcor

ive had alot of experience mixing. ive even mastered my own stuff before when i was younger but all i really did was make everything louder, prolly ruined everything.
i never really experimented beyond that nor really needed to. my mixes were sent to someone else.
we dont have that option here. we might send the single out to someone but the rest we have to do.
and we gotta do now...
making it sound good, yeah naturally..but im looking for something more specific. any standards for radio? are they going to cut or boost anything?
what am i trying to aviod (besides distortion)
come on guys level with me here!
what am i trying to do?

this is a classic post.
you're asking for help, on an internet forum. all these really experienced MEs, and some veterans, are telling you, "hey, hold on. sounds like the mix is REALLY not ready for mastering yet", and all you want to hear is "the secret herbs and spices" for making a great master.
Well dude, heed the coments of your peers. You say you have no time, but really,
what's more important, rushing these mixes out into the public arena, or getting them right. Please explain why there's such a rush. Is your friend gonna lose the record deal of his life if he misses a deadline, or morelikely, has he already booked the venue for his CD launch?
I mean saying stuff like, 'any good standards for radio' tells me you're really not ready to master an album. Yeah there is a standard...make it sound really damn good. How can you possibly expect people who haven't heard the mixes, to give you any in-sight to how to master you mixes.
It's just like saying. "my car's not driving to well. any tips?. Really, even you, yourself admit that mastering is not your thing, so why jeapordize your friend's work? May be if you told us all what the urgency is, you'd get a little more feedback.
You're only saving grace is the fact that you have the judgement to possibly send the single to a real mastering engineer. good luck

[lucey]

Do the right thing ... mix for 4 days and pay someone to master.

What's the rush? A Cd release? Note to bands: dont schedule the release when you're still mixing. Better to play a few shows with the CD in hand, do some promo ... and THEN have a party.

[AlexLakis]

Originally Posted by lucey

What's the rush? A Cd release? Note to bands: dont schedule the release when you're still mixing. Better to play a few shows with the CD in hand, do some promo ... and THEN have a party.

Has there ever been a band that has actually waited until after mastering is done to schedule their CD release show/party?

[lucey]

Originally Posted by AlexLakis

Has there ever been a band that has actually waited until after mastering is done to schedule their CD release show/party?

Probaby not ... but they could wait until mixing is done!

[AlexLakis]

Originally Posted by lucey

Probaby not ... but they could wait until mixing is done!

Or until vocal tracking is complete! That would be nice!

"So, when are we gonna record the vocals for that last song?"

"Oh, as soon as I write the lyrics! By the way, I booked the CD release show for next Saturday!"

[jcool]

your mastering the album will not help.
it's doubtful that an experienced mastering engineer will fix anything either, if the mix or the song is bad.
what is there to fix?

[tikcor]

thank you all for your attention

the rush: it was suppose to be done a month ago. everyone has grown impatient. the band the lable but mostly my friend, who reacts to stress bad. the albums just been a drag and generally the motive is to get it over with now. welcome to poland.
no money! id gladly have him send these out and spend the time mixing. but theres no budget. we gotta do both. last night we managed to get the single sounding much better and were gonna try basically blueprinting off of it with the other stuff. like an undo button for the previous mixes.
i donno guys, i was just looking for anything that would help later, when we cant mix anymore and HAVE to master it.

[Thomas W. Bethe]

There are sooooooooooo many posts like yours on this forum. A mastering job just fell into my lap, the band doesn't have money to do the mastering so I have to do it myself, I really don't want to be a mastering engineer but I JUST HAVE to master this album and I don't know all the tricks so can someone help me out.

1. Nothing good will come of a half baked mastering session. All you will do is make a bad situation worse.

2. Take the pressure off and do what others have suggested FIX THE MIX and then take it to a pro mastering engineer for the mastering part and don't say you ONLY have 7 days to get the job done. You really have as much time as you need to get the JOB done correctly.

3. Worry about your part of the project and let someone else worry about the mastering. You are NOT going to learn how to be a good enough mastering engineer in 7 days, 7 weeks or 7 months to make a real difference in this project.

4. There are NO secrets to mastering that no one is telling you. There are NO black robes, no magic incantations, no secret handshakes, no magic equalization settings, no magic compressor settings and no magic pixie dust.

5. The lack of money does not fly. Most people spend way more on their CD release party for food and beverages than they ever would spend on a decent mastering job . There are many good mastering engineers that populate this web board and I am sure one of them can do an excellent job for a reasonable rate. So cut back on the beer and pizzas for the CD release party and spend the money where it will do more good.

6.There is the obvious conclusion to all of this and that is you have to have a good room, good equipment and LOTS of EXPERIENCE before you can call yourself a professional mastering engineer and if you don't have that then seek out someone who does this for a living and has the tools necessary to get the job done.

MTCW

[Bob Yordan]

Have you tried McDonalds, fast mastering menu?

[Methlab]

Originally Posted by tikcor

well heres the situation. yesterday a friend asked me to help him master a 14 track record hes doing and i agreed dispite having very little experience. theres still some mixing to be done, mainly vocals. we have 6 days.
were using a pair of yamaha msp7 and everythings going on in the box. the subwoofer was damaged about a week ago and is out of the picture.
the room is about 20x15ft, bricks and carpet, pretty comproised.
the mixes sound very top heavy. vocals sound like theyre in another room, overall the tracks sound aweful. but it has to get done and it has to be done there.
first let me ask if its safe to rely solely on the monitors considering the the mix was done with the sub. they have a switch on the back to work without the sub but still, i get the feeling that the top end wouldnt be so pronounced if he sub was pounding away. of course were referencing every thing today at a nieghboring studio to get a better idea..anyone ever have this kinda predicament?
secondly, eqing, limiting/compression... what am i paying attention to? what would you say is the most important thing to think about trying to achieve in mastering.
loud?
any plugins you guys cant live without? were using sonar/ winxp what are they and what do you use them for?
thanks
p

Not to sound like a jerk, but from this post you give me the vibe that you are in WAY over your head here.


You will not make this record sound good on first go. Hire a professional.

[SeanG]

Originally Posted by AlexLakis

Or until vocal tracking is complete! That would be nice!

"So, when are we gonna record the vocals for that last song?"

"Oh, as soon as I write the lyrics! By the way, I booked the CD release show for next Saturday!"

LOL soooo true!

[Tubefreak]

Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe

You really have as much time as you need to get the JOB done correctly.

Indeed. He talks about a rush..... what rush?
The band, management, record company, fans, etc all rush all the time! Put it on a time line and look at it from a perspective. Which will any of them choose:
1. awful sounding record, but released on time
2. better/great sounding record, released two months too late

Unfortunatly many of them don't want or can't look at it from a perspective and want option 3: great record in time. The non existing option!

Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe

5. The lack of money does not fly. Most people spend way more on their CD release party for food and beverages than they ever would spend on a decent mastering engineer like the ones that populate this web board. So cut back on the beer and pizzas for the CD release party and spend the money where it will do more good.

This is ssssoooooo true for many bands!

Can't we make this whole Thread a sticky. Haven't seen such a classic in a long time.

Maarten

[virtualsounds]

tikcor you are walking the wrong path. Not you but your friend first of all.
Everyone gave you the truth, and the truth is that a bad mix is a bad mix and it is the most important thing in all to have a decent mix. Now you are trying to build a city on water, you have to make the dry floor first!
What I believe would be the best fro you now if you HAVE to go your way is to work on the mixes for 6 days and then use a mastering in a very simple way (just for making volume loud). If you cannot go into mixing then just try some basic equalization rules with compressing (maybe a multiband would help in so "hard" situations) and throw Waves L3 on it. Whatever the case this is the wrong way and propably the only result will be to have a LOUD bad sounding mix.

[GYMusic]

Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe

4. There are NO secrets to mastering that no one is telling you. There are NO black robes, no magic incantations, no secret handshakes, no magic equalization settings, no magic compressor settings and no magic pixie dust.

I'm going to print this out and put it up in the studio. That's a great stuff!

[lucey]

Originally Posted by GYMusic

I'm going to print this out and put it up in the studio. That's a great stuff!

The magic is in the music ...

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe

4. There are NO secrets to mastering that no one is telling you. There are NO black robes, no magic incantations, no secret handshakes, no magic equalization settings, no magic compressor settings and no magic pixie dust.

But there are those who will lead the pack. Those who hear and listen beyond what is easily possible and can make things sound "just that much better" than the rest. Those who live and work to push the envelopes beyond the status quo and what's accepted.

Those kind of qualities can't be quantified and are qualities you have to be born with. And yeah some of those qualities are developed over time(experience) but there is always that little extra that sets you apart.

[tikcor]

no offence taken! theres no room for ego in music.
weve been mixing all the tracks agian...we sent the single to get mastered and should have it back tomorrow. i think its fesable that well have the mixing done by the weekend. its good to hear that someone on here would be willing to help. if you would like to help please send me your rates per track to slowbrain@gmail.com
its 12 or 13 tracks, rap...wed need to have it early next week.

yes! there is a rush, were both overbooked the entire rest of the month and there just isnt any more time to offer. plus hes been making this record (its a first release for a band thats been around for 10 years) since the summer...to be remixing everything the last week is rediculous then trying to master it halfassed i agree, is equally obsurd. there was time, now there isnt. there probably was money too, now there isnt. this is the situation.

[stevetothink]

OK - I'm not going to tell you to have someone else master it. You made it clear that it isn't an option. Instead, I'm going to try and actually answer your question. It is important to keep in mind that I am answering your question under the parameters of your existing project and with the understanding that your knowledge of mastering is still in it's infancy stage.

Step 1: Bounce your mixes to a stereo wave file. Do not try to master the version of your song from the mix.

Step 2: Import that stereo wave file into a new project

Step 3: Import a 2nd track of a recording that you can use as a reference for volume, EQ, etc...a commercially mastered song that you want to model.

Step 4: Insert a "match" or "Analyzer" EQ plugin on both the commercial & your mixed track. Use your eyes AND your ears to see and hear where they differ.

Step 5: Insert an EQ & Compressor on your mixed track and search the presets for "mastering presets." This will get you in the ball park of where the settings should be if you've never mastered. Be sure that you do not have the commercial track running through this EQ & Compressor or it will change your reference track.

Step 6: After analyzing the differences between the track you mixed and the commercial track, see if you can adjust the EQ & Compressor to create a template for the EQ of the commercial track.

Step 7: Make sure your left & right channels are relatively evenly gained.

Step 8: Make sure you're not clipping in the compressor or the main output bus.

Step 9: Don't listen too loud. You'll get ear fatigue and won't hear well after 15 minutes.

Step 10: Bounce the track after you're happy with the sound and then listen to it in the car and on headphones, etc. Be sure to apply dither if you're bouncing to a lower bit rate...such as going from 24 to 16 bit.

Step 11: Come back tomorrow and listen again

Step 12: Save this as a template for mastering and import your other mixes and adjust accordingly.

I find that most people make the following mistakes when mastering on their own.

Mistake #1: WAY too much bass frequencies across all instruments.

Mistake #2: WAY too much reverb in the original mix (not really a mastering problem)

Mistake #3: WAY too much high end in the mastering EQ.

Mistake #4: WAY too loud to the point where it clips.

Mistake #5: WAY too much bass...did I say this already?

Again, it is relative to your project and your mixes. Most important, have fun. The best mastering engineers start by toying around with their own recordings.

[MASSIVE Master]

You had me up until step 3... Trying to force a mix somewhere it isn't destined for is destined for failure. "Matching EQ's" generally do neither "match" or "EQ" very well.

Using commercial releases as a guide for "openness" and "air" and "clarity" and perhaps "density" *DURING MIXING* (more during tracking actually) is one thing. But by the time someone takes their "mixing" hat off and puts their "mastering" hat on, the mix already knows what direction it wants to go. The potential is there. But if your guitars didn't sound like their guitars and the balance between your rhythm section and their rhythm section isn't the same, or their vocalist was using a different microphone than your vocalist, you're just going to be chasing your tail.

The point is to get the most potential out of the mixes - Not to try to make it sound like someone else's mix. HELP the mix go where it WANTS to go - Don't steer it in another direction.

[soundroid]

Originally Posted by stevetothink

Step 4: Insert a "match" or "Analyzer" EQ plugin on both the commercial & your mixed track. Use your eyes AND your ears to see and hear where they differ.

Seriously dude, I know you mean well, but instructions like the ones you've listed
come from the heart, not the head. (or ears)
"Use your eyes" should NEVER EVER be a comment used in mastering, even if you do follow it up with "AND your ears".
Telling someone blindly how to master a track over the internet is almost comical, however, as I said, your heart's in the right place.

[Jamzone]

Originally Posted by tikcor

no offence taken! theres no room for ego in music.

That's the most hilarious thing I've heard in a month..

You make my day (or night here in Sweden)!

Best to you,


//Jamzone

[daveseviltwin]

Has there ever been a band that has actually waited until after mastering is done to schedule their CD release show/party?

Just a way to feed their ego. Every local band does this now, even if the cd sounds like balls.