Best limiter plug-in?

[jimmydeluxe]

I love the Chandler as a comp (even in limiter mode), UAD prelim and sonnox for limiters.

[bmanic]

Voxengo Elephant version 3.0 is still king in my opinion. It is so incredibly versatile. I had a nice shootout with iZotope Ozone 4 and Elephant 3 today and Elephant was the clear choice on all songs (strange hiphop/pop hybrid stuff, lots of quick transients and booming bass).

Cheers!
bManic

[sloanlogic]

Sonnox Oxford Limiter - Hands down the best.

[Farshad]

PSP Xenon.

[macc]

Originally Posted by bmanic

Voxengo Elephant version 3.0 is still king in my opinion. It is so incredibly versatile. I had a nice shootout with iZotope Ozone 4 and Elephant 3 today and Elephant was the clear choice on all songs (strange hiphop/pop hybrid stuff, lots of quick transients and booming bass).

Cheers!
bManic

Absolutely agreed. Another door opened up with it yesterday. You know where you feel like you're really getting to know something, and then you realise that really it's only one part of its potential.

Very much the king around here - I can match and exceed all the other limiters I have with it. I was pleased about this as I was ready to fork out for UAD precision limiter until I stumbled across a certain setting in Elephant 3. The same, but better.

Awesome.

[twwalsh]

Xenon is killing all for me right now.

[kjg]

I think Elephant 3 is unbelievable value. I needed only 5 minutes with it before I reached for my credit card.

1/3 of the price of Xenon, no iLok crippling, and very, very flexible.

Now that is value for money. And that is how you grow a loyal user base in the 21st century, IMHO.

2€¢
kjg

[Riccardo]

Originally Posted by kjg

I think Elephant 3 is unbelievable value. I needed only 5 minutes with it before I reached for my credit card.

1/3 of the price of Xenon, no iLok crippling, and very, very flexible.

Now that is value for money. And that is how you grow a loyal user base in the 21st century, IMHO.

2€¢
kjg

Have you tried/used both? (Elephant and Xenon)

[bcgood]

Massey L2007 first then Elephant 3 second is a winning combo.

[kjg]

Originally Posted by Riccardo

Have you tried/used both? (Elephant and Xenon)

Yes.
I am not saying it is better. Xenon is very good as well. But Elephant is excellent value.

I like the price, I like the developer's choice to go without iLok, I like that it can be used quickly by modifying a preset but can also be tweaked extensively where necessary.
Together with Kjaerhus MPL-1 Pro it is all I need atm.

2€¢ of course.
kjg

[twwalsh]

i have used elephant 2 and 3 pretty extensively and i must say it sounds totally flat to me in comparison to xenon. really, please try xenon! (not the presets...roll yr own settings)

[JPeters86]

How about the new Ozone 4 limiter? I really dig it in 'Intelligent II' mode!

[twwalsh]

Originally Posted by kjg

I think Elephant 3 is unbelievable value. I needed only 5 minutes with it before I reached for my credit card.

1/3 of the price of Xenon, no iLok crippling, and very, very flexible.

Now that is value for money. And that is how you grow a loyal user base in the 21st century, IMHO.

2€¢
kjg

ps, i understand what you're saying, but when i making masters day after day, i want the best tools. i'm not necessarily interested in value for money, or saving $200 in the long run...i'm interested in getting the best results.

[kjg]

Originally Posted by twwalsh

ps, i understand what you're saying, but when i making masters day after day, i want the best tools. i'm not necessarily interested in value for money, or saving $200 in the long run...i'm interested in getting the best results.

Thanks for the tip. I'm certainly aware that it is a good limiter. I haven't dismissed it or anything like that.

Elephant works for me on rock, and stuff that can take/needs a little crunch.
For the more soft and/or transparent type of just-a-db-two-tops limiting, I prefer Kjaerhus MPL-1 pro with its look-ahead, smoothing, oversampled sidechain, and stereo linking options.

Some pre-shaping where necessary with Sonnox.

Eventually I'll probably still add Xenon to the options. Like I said, I don't think Elephant is better. That is not it.
I just have the bases covered, more or less. And for the people that, unlike you, are shopping on a budget, I think it is a great deal.

regards,
kjg

[twwalsh]

Originally Posted by kjg

I just have the bases covered, more or less. And for the people that, unlike you, are shopping on a budget, I think it is a great deal.

i agree, elephant is a great deal.

tw

[AMIEL]

Originally Posted by davidwilson

I can't understand all the people who like the Massey Limiter. To me it sounds more like a compressor and narrows the signal . The L2 destroys it IMO.

I have used the Ozone and am considering purchacing but am wondering if the Sonnex or MD3 would be better.

The Soonox is the best by far...without a doubt! just listen how the others destroy your snare!

[kjg]

Originally Posted by twwalsh

i agree, elephant is a great deal.

tw

o btw... Have you compared Flux Limiter II to Xenon?

I haven't tried the Flux at all so far and I'd be interested to hear what you think.

PS: I use Elephant at 96k, without oversampling.

[24-96 Mastering]

Originally Posted by AMIEL

The Soonox is the best by far...without a doubt! just listen how the others destroy your snare!

The Sonnox is good, just want to add that it's a deceiving beast. When in auto (or was it safe mode?) it does all kinds of things. Very, compressory / pumpy. When it's not in auto or safe, it's not really brickwalling, i.e. you're clipping (which often sounds good, but I wouldn't call it a brickwall limiter). Both of those "far ends" of the spectrum can be great and useful, but it is kinda less of an actual limiter than most other plugs imo.

Oh, and the level boost that you get with the Sonnx is quite misleading.

[24-96 Mastering]

Originally Posted by JPeters86

How about the new Ozone 4 limiter? I really dig it in 'Intelligent II' mode!

Checked out the demo. Intelligent II is very potent, no doubt. However, I thought as much as it sounds good at first glance, it adds a very twitchy nervousness. More so than Intelligent I anyway. To me, that's the main trade-off. A change in stereo width (someone mentioned that earlier) is much less of a concern to me than the twitchyness. Might work really well on the right kind of material though.

[twwalsh]

Originally Posted by AMIEL

The Soonox is the best by far...without a doubt! just listen how the others destroy your snare!

i get too much distortion with sonnox.

[twwalsh]

Originally Posted by kjg

o btw... Have you compared Flux Limiter II to Xenon?

I haven't tried the Flux at all so far and I'd be interested to hear what you think.

PS: I use Elephant at 96k, without oversampling.

i haven't checked out flux limiter II. i will, thanks!

i normally do my limiting at 44.1, maybe that's a big difference.

elephant 3 in "auto" mode does oversample during bounce. just not while listening. are you switching it to 1X? i think the oversampling sounds better.

[Riccardo]

Very interesting comments.

Just a quick reminder, this being the mastering forum w are looking at brick wall limiters in a mastering context were you (we, al of us ...) would go from 0.5 to 3db (and that is an awful lot) of gain reduction.

[kjg]

Originally Posted by twwalsh

i haven't checked out flux limiter II. i will, thanks!

i normally do my limiting at 44.1, maybe that's a big difference.

elephant 3 in "auto" mode does oversample during bounce. just not while listening. are you switching it to 1X? i think the oversampling sounds better.

For anything serious, I upsample to 96k first thing. It is a drag, but it does sound a lot better. Compressors and limiters specifically.

If I need to get it loud the end of the chain might look something like this:
Sonnox with medium to slow attack, maybe a touch of knee, GR "leds" barely coming on > Elephant non oversampling (but running at 96k!), doing 1-3 dB GR with whatever settings are needed > ceiling to -.4.

Downsample > sequence, fades etc > kjaerhus mpl-1 pro with threshold at -.36 (it has an oversampling side chain, but leaves the audio alone), and unlinked up to 10-20 ms, to catch the stray peaks from downsampling > dither > export.

Normally I prefer to upsample once, let all plugins run at native high sample rates, then downsample once. Some plugins automatically upsample when you run at lower sample rates... Another good reason for me to do it just once before I start. You could end up with 3 times up and down in a complex session.

If I need to run Elephant at 44.1 I'll switch it to 2x or 4x oversampling, depending on what seems to match the program best.

I pretty much only like Sonnox for the fact that it has an attack time, and a knee. I never use it as a brickwall. I never use auto-gain (I can do my own macrodynamics, thank you very much), or safe mode (distorts too often, and generally colors too much). Sometimes I think I like 6 - 12 % of enhance, but I almost end up turning it off. I pretty much don't like the sound of it as soon as the lights come on consistently. But what it does just before that, just shaping the loudest peeks, that is nice. Just a slight tightening.

I'll be demoing Flux... I wonder how it compares to Xenon.
The variable linking in Xenon is nice btw! Too bad Flux doesn't have that.

Any Flux experiences? Especially compared to Xenon?

regards,
kjg

[creative.control]

I like the Xenon the best at the mo, Elephant 3 is very good, but I've found it'd start to noticably distort high end quite quickly compared to the Xenon. The Xenon seems more intuitive to me too.

The UAD precision limiter is good for only a couple of dbs.

The Xenon can take alot of abuse.

[Riccardo]

Originally Posted by kjg

For the more soft and/or transparent type of just-a-db-two-tops limiting, I prefer Kjaerhus MPL-1 pro with its look-ahead, smoothing, oversampled sidechain, and stereo linking options.
kjg

I have added this to my "try it someday when I find the time" list

Just out of curiosity reading this thread: how many of you push digital brick wall past 1.5 or 2 db of gain reduction? And why?

[Waltz Mastering]

Much more beyond 2 db and the sound starts to go south for me.

For 95% of the stuff I do I don't usually need to much more than that.

The average rms levels usually live between -15 and -9.5 depending on the material.



TW

[twwalsh]

Originally Posted by Riccardo

I have added this to my "try it someday when I find the time" list

Just out of curiosity reading this thread: how many of you push digital brick wall past 1.5 or 2 db of gain reduction? And why?

there are definitely points in almost every rock song that get to -3 or -4 (some huge crescendo-over-zealous-kick-drum-hit), but i try not to push the majority of kicks and snares past -1.

[wado1942]

I'll give a dismissive answere. If you don't have the motivation or judgement to learn the difference between a good and bad limiter, you don't have the motivation or judgement to USE it. Also, it takes A LOT more than a limiter plugin to master your albums. It takes years of experience and making mistakes along the way.

[Bluelake]

Originally Posted by kjg

For anything serious, I upsample to 96k first thing. It is a drag, but it does sound a lot better. Compressors and limiters specifically.

If I need to get it loud the end of the chain might look something like this:
Sonnox with medium to slow attack, maybe a touch of knee, GR "leds" barely coming on > Elephant non oversampling (but running at 96k!), doing 1-3 dB GR with whatever settings are needed > ceiling to -.4.

Downsample > sequence, fades etc > kjaerhus mpl-1 pro with threshold at -.36 (it has an oversampling side chain, but leaves the audio alone), and unlinked up to 10-20 ms, to catch the stray peaks from downsampling > dither > export.

Normally I prefer to upsample once, let all plugins run at native high sample rates, then downsample once. Some plugins automatically upsample when you run at lower sample rates... Another good reason for me to do it just once before I start. You could end up with 3 times up and down in a complex session.

If I need to run Elephant at 44.1 I'll switch it to 2x or 4x oversampling, depending on what seems to match the program best.

I pretty much only like Sonnox for the fact that it has an attack time, and a knee. I never use it as a brickwall. I never use auto-gain (I can do my own macrodynamics, thank you very much), or safe mode (distorts too often, and generally colors too much). Sometimes I think I like 6 - 12 % of enhance, but I almost end up turning it off. I pretty much don't like the sound of it as soon as the lights come on consistently. But what it does just before that, just shaping the loudest peeks, that is nice. Just a slight tightening.

I'll be demoing Flux... I wonder how it compares to Xenon.
The variable linking in Xenon is nice btw! Too bad Flux doesn't have that.

Any Flux experiences? Especially compared to Xenon?

regards,
kjg

Thanks for this, very useful !
I was trying to find a way to avoid more than one downsampling, specially once the file is at 44,1 kh. Will be buying the Kjaerhus limiter that doesn't upsample and downsample the actual audio but just the sidechain....

Juan

[kjg]

Originally Posted by Bluelake

Thanks for this, very useful !
I was trying to find a way to avoid more than one downsampling, specially once the file is at 44,1 kh. Will be buying the Kjaerhus limiter that doesn't upsample and downsample the actual audio but just the sidechain....

Juan

Yeah try it. It is a useful plugin. It is efficient too. When mixing I sometimes use it on individual tracks as well, often with a little lookahead/smoothing.

Just one thing I should add:
I routinely upsample stuff that I know will have to go through substantial processing, specifically compression and/or limiting. But if I can tell on a first listen that it will only be a touch of eq here and there, then the upsampling may not be worth it.
I in doubt I just render it at both samplerates and A/B.

cheers,
klaas-jan