Logic or Protools?

[C Heat]

Welcome to Gearslutz.

I hope you don't get flamed, but I'm givin' ya a heads up -

'Try the Search function' coming your way...

FWIW I've used both and am quite satisfied with PT

[mobilemozart]

Try both - get Logic Pro and Protools LE (or M-Powered). It's useful to be able to handle projects in both worlds.
Once you know them both, I think Logic is the more powerful tool. Being (now) an Apple Product it will have a safe future. More and more Plug-In manufacturers are porting their stuff to AU (Audio Unit), Apple's proprietary Plug-In format.

I've been making platinum selling records with Logic for the last 10 years. Went through some rough times whenever there was a major upgrade (introduction of USB Dongle, OS9 to OS X upgrade, now PowerPC to Intel), but actually quite flawless compared to the trouble's Protools Users went through ;-)

Also, Logic is the established industry standard amongst pro users, then ProTools and Cubase.

Hope that helps.

[audiomichael]

If you are talking about for mastering, since this is a mastering forum, I'm not sure either should be your first choice???

[Rufuss Sewell]

Not quite sure how mobilemozart could possibly fathom that Logic is the industry standard amongst pros. Clearly that title belongs to Pro Tools. That being said, I have both and prefer Logic quite a bit. I wouldn't say that Logic sounds better... but I personnaly make music that sounds better when I'm using Logic. I can't stand all that pink and baby blue in Pro Tools. Logic lets me set things up the way I want to work. Pro Tools makes me do it the Pro Tools way, and I just can't hang.

But, if you use Logic you still need some kind of Pro Tools rig because it is by far the industry standard. I've had many many projects brought to me in Pro Tools format, and only one in Logic.

[theblotted]

i agree with Rufus, PT is really the industry standard (i know at least here in US and Asia). the only alternatives i've seen in pro studios are Logic and Nuendo, but quite rare. i use Logic, btw.

since both mobilemozart and Logic are from Germany, perhaps Logic is the standard there? how about in Europe?

[mobilemozart]

Guys,
we have worked in all major markets as our company www.mozartandfriends.com is managing producers globally.
Generally all kinds of DAW are used by producers who are making tracks and/or beats (which is the hip-hop expression for playbacks/tracks) at their home studios, I have seen everything, Cubase, Nuendo, Logic, Fruity Loops, everything... PCs and Macs are both used, and as a producers career develops, there is a strong tendency towards getting a Mac using Protools and/or Logic.
Talking about tracking in professional studios, most of them have Protools Hardware, even in Germany and the UK, where they are mostly using Logic as a front end.
However, in Europe only the top (1-10) percentage of records is tracked and even mixed in Pro Studios.
From what I have seen, Logic is the industry standard on which the biggest part of productions in Europe is done/even mixed. I'm talking about chart-topping pop records.
In the US, the market is different, the budgets are bigger, so there are more places involved in a pop record. Writing/track composition is mostly done in home studios, tracking in bigger home studios and pro studios, mixing is mostly "big board" e.g. SSL in combination with ProTools.
Mastering is a completely different world, I have never seen Protools or Logic running in a mastering studio unless the producer brought his own rig e.g. for mastering with stems.

Peace,
Marc

Originally Posted by theblotted

i agree with Rufus, PT is really the industry standard (i know at least here in US and Asia). the only alternatives i've seen in pro studios are Logic and Nuendo, but quite rare. i use Logic, btw.

since both mobilemozart and Logic are from Germany, perhaps Logic is the standard there? how about in Europe?

[raydo]

Not in Germany!!!!!

Originally Posted by Rufuss Sewell

Not quite sure how mobilemozart could possibly fathom that Logic is the industry standard amongst pros. Clearly that title belongs to Pro Tools. That being said, I have both and prefer Logic quite a bit. I wouldn't say that Logic sounds better... but I personnaly make music that sounds better when I'm using Logic. I can't stand all that pink and baby blue in Pro Tools. Logic lets me set things up the way I want to work. Pro Tools makes me do it the Pro Tools way, and I just can't hang.

But, if you use Logic you still need some kind of Pro Tools rig because it is by far the industry standard. I've had many many projects brought to me in Pro Tools format, and only one in Logic.

[soundman76]

I use Final Cut Pro and Pro Tools LE together a lot with no problems. I'm just not willing to part with Pro Tools just because I'm working with video periodically.

[mobilemozart]

Originally Posted by raydo

Not in Germany!!!!!

Thanks raydo,
also when someone's asking me today: "what should I get - Protools or Logic?" then thats a question that doesn't have much to do with ProTools being an industry standard for a long time (obviously as it was the first professional multitrack DAW back in the 90s).
Now that we have such great amount of processing power in todays CPUs, and there is a lot of great native software and plugins (ALL of Waves for example, but even Sony Oxford, URS, etc.) there is no way I would ever recommend somebody who wants to survive in todays music industry to get a Protools HD setup - that would make me a bad manager!
For that kind of money, get a Mac Pro (or Macbook Pro if you wanna go mobile), nice 23" Display (or similar), some software (Logic Pro, Cubase, perhaps Protools LE/M-Powered) some cool plugins (Waves, Oxford, URS). Even if you add some good nearfields, a Neumann, Firewire-Audiointerface and some room treatment, you won't be spending the same kinda money you'd have to drop on a Protools HD setup.

[thephatboi]

Logic is better for songwriting/composing with lots of included instruments and noise makers. Protools is better to mix, track and master with IMO. Get both if you can afford it and use them for their strengths. i have both, since I mix alot, PT is 85%, then Logic gets booted when I want to get creative.... my .02

[theblotted]

Originally Posted by mobilemozart

Peace,
Marc

cool, thanks for getting back to us.

i think it's more of a location thing. even with not so big budget studios, the PT domination in US is quite a sight. everybody and their mom's got a MBox or 002. the cats who use Logic are more key/synth players or composers. not "recordists", per se.

i'd like to see Logic dominate the market here more tho.

[Solix]

You guys are awesome! I didn't expect this kind of feedback but what I'm pretty much getting is that Logic is the favored DAW but ProTools is pretty much a requirement for the industry. I think I may just get myself an MBOX 2 to start and once cash becomes less of an issue move my way up to logic as logic seems to be more of a option (In north america) than protools is.

[Cellotron]

Sonic SoundBlade, Sequoia, Wavelab, Pyramix, SADIE, SAWStudio - to me all would be better as mastering DAW's than PT or Logic as you'll get integrated PQ editing with these.

PT does make some sense in a mastering studio as a decent choice as a secondary DAW as a transport if your clients require you to directly open PT sessions once in a while. I guess Logic makes some bit of sense if you already are familiar with editing in it and like Waveburner. Still - none would be my first choice for a primary DAW app if I was to equip a new mastering studio.

IF this post was not inquiring about what is best in a mastering application - then I've got to ask - WHY is this thread in the mastering forum??

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[tamasdragon]

But if someone is able to export bwav files, as any daw can, than it's completely irrelevant which daw is used for the record.

Tamas Dragon

[Solix]

Originally Posted by Cellotron

IF this post was not inquiring about what is best in a mastering application - then I've got to ask - WHY is this thread in the mastering forum??

Hey sorry about that. It was meant as an all around mastering and editing inquiry. But more for mastering. Editing is editing there are a million ways to do it and everyone has their own flavour that could churn out similar results. But with mastering there is a whole other level of craft that goes into getting the best level of work out. I was just looking for what people thought was the best *in their opinion* between these two pieces of software. Most of the others you listed I've never really heard of before but now it's time for me to do my homework on them! Thanks!

[Cellotron]

Originally Posted by Solix

Hey sorry about that. It was meant as an all around mastering and editing inquiry. But more for mastering. Editing is editing there are a million ways to do it and everyone has their own flavour that could churn out similar results. But with mastering there is a whole other level of craft that goes into getting the best level of work out. I was just looking for what people thought was the best *in their opinion* between these two pieces of software. Most of the others you listed I've never really heard of before but now it's time for me to do my homework on them! Thanks!

Well as a Mac user your probable best bet is Sonic Studio Soundblade - http://www.sonicstudio.com

Best regards,
Steve Berson

[Cody]

Instead of starting a new thread, I thought I'd use an old one to convey my thoughts on something.

I just installed Logic onto my computer, imported a consolidated Pro Tools LE session, rebuilt the mix with my waves SSL plugs etc., and have this to say; I think Logic sounds better.

Maybe it's the PDC. No idea. But my kick in/out tracks are suddenly way easier to hear/mix with the rest of the kit. And the transients are more "there"... it's almost scary. I hope this means that things are translating better... I really have noticed my hearing become more picky over the last couple of years, and maybe this will help improve the quality of my mixes. Even if it's just a tiny bit... that would be awesome.

Phase one complete. Hopefully in two months I'll be selling my 002 so I can move over to the Ensemble!

[theblotted]

Originally Posted by Cody

Instead of starting a new thread, I thought I'd use an old one to convey my thoughts on something.

I just installed Logic onto my computer, imported a consolidated Pro Tools LE session, rebuilt the mix with my waves SSL plugs etc., and have this to say; I think Logic sounds better.

Maybe it's the PDC. No idea. But my kick in/out tracks are suddenly way easier to hear/mix with the rest of the kit. And the transients are more "there"... it's almost scary. I hope this means that things are translating better... I really have noticed my hearing become more picky over the last couple of years, and maybe this will help improve the quality of my mixes. Even if it's just a tiny bit... that would be awesome.

Phase one complete. Hopefully in two months I'll be selling my 002 so I can move over to the Ensemble!

it's not the PDC, unless you forgot to compensate in PTLE. Waves SSL usually has 1 sample delay. it's prob due to pan laws. PT uses -2.5dB pan law, closest you can get in Logic is -3dB.

[oceantracks]

Originally Posted by mobilemozart

Also, Logic is the established industry standard amongst pro users, then ProTools and Cubase.

Hope that helps.

Yes, they used Logic back in the Fifties to do all the audio post on "PLAN 9 FROM OUTER SPACE," which is apparently also where you are getting your statistics

TH

[Lagerfeldt]

Originally Posted by Cody

I just installed Logic onto my computer, imported a consolidated Pro Tools LE session, rebuilt the mix with my waves SSL plugs etc., and have this to say; I think Logic sounds better.

Maybe it's the PDC. No idea. But my kick in/out tracks are suddenly way easier to hear/mix with the rest of the kit. And the transients are more "there"... it's almost scary. I hope this means that things are translating better... I really have noticed my hearing become more picky over the last couple of years, and maybe this will help improve the quality of my mixes. Even if it's just a tiny bit... that would be awesome.

Yeah I find the same thing and so do many other people. In fact a test on the Digidesign forum found Pro Tools users preferred the Logic Pro mix in the blind test, a result which caused much heated discussion. It was a Pro Tools HD person who did the test which means it wasn't biased towards Logic Pro.

I'm going to blame the lack of PDC or whatever in PT LE, not just the pan law difference. Even when manually compensating for both factors as good as possible it just won't gel the same way. Since there's nothing else to indicate PT LE should sound worse apart from the latency issue I'm going to apply Occam's Razor.

I don't think Pro Tools is that much of an industry standard as some people would like it to be. In fact most producers I know use Logic Pro for production, not Pro Tools. But then again I don't deal that much with rock music. Looking exclusively at the mixing scene Pro Tools is huge, no doubt about it.

Personally I find Logic Pro a more flexible and faster experience, and the plug-ins kick ass compared to any other audio package. I did have a Pro Tools mix system many years ago but I ditched it and went 100% native and never looked back.

[Ben F]

Originally Posted by Cellotron

Well as a Mac user your probable best bet is Sonic Studio Soundblade - Sonic Studio :: Digital Audio Mastering and Authoring Tools for PCM, DSD&SACD

Best regards,
Steve Berson

You get Waveburner with Logic Pro. It should do all you need for assembling CDs, and is much better value.

To the original poster, you will find Pro Tools is an industry standard for recording and mixing bands, and also film/TV post production. Logic is very popular for composition and is a much more complete package for music production. You can pretty much do it all on Logic Pro...Pro tools requires much more investment in plug-ins.

[It'sJoeAgain]

I have said it before and I am saying it again (2 cents coming up) PT TDM (HD, MIx, MIX-PLUS) is a great system and The other PTs are OK but not the same (I don't think)....Use it for mixing and mastering, PT can handle anything and best of all, a whole bunch of studios use it worldwide, and that means more compatibility....that said, is Logic as expensive as PT TDM HD??? not even close

[Table Of Tone]

PT HD is widely used for playback duties by many mastering engineers around the world.
Most of em slave a premium DA converter to the 192 (Prism or Lavry etc).
I'm not a fan of the 192's!

I think Logic 8 sounds better than PT LE (depending on what hardware is being used) but not as good as PT HD when it's running prisms!

I wouldn't normally use Logic 8 as a mastering playback DAW because the are better sounding audio engines for playback on OSX.

I would definitely not use PT LE!

As a capture DAW, I think Sonic Studio soundBlade is the best sounding for Mac OSX and I think Sequoia is the best sounding for Windows.

[pmx]

I would definitely not use PT LE!

I think Logic 8 sounds better than PT LE

even when playback is the only thing it is used for? no processing involved?

i run a 003>rme adat aes converter>d/a chain with LE as playback machine. if HD or logic would sound better with the same chain, then what would cause this?

[It'sJoeAgain]

Originally Posted by pmx

even when playback is the only thing it is used for? no processing involved?

i run a 003>rme adat aes converter>d/a chain with LE as playback machine. if HD or logic would sound better with the same chain, then what would cause this?

I am not sure we are talking mastering chains or the "mastering" solutions themselves anymore...

[theblotted]

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt

Even when manually compensating for both factors as good as possible it just won't gel the same way.

please explain.

when delays are compensated, they're compensated, esp by samples. unless Logic compensates to fractions of samples; which i don't even know if plugins will report that to begin with.

[Lagerfeldt]

I can't explain it unfortunately.

[pmx]

I am not sure we are talking mastering chains or the "mastering" solutions themselves anymore...

are you suggesting it's not a legit question?

[okydoky]

hi,

thank God people are finally getting around to debating whether pro tools or logic is best.



right.