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How to get those SUPER Loud Mixes?
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bartrose
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26th January 2007
Old 26th January 2007
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How to get those SUPER Loud Mixes?

Masterer
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26th January 2007
Old 26th January 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bartrose View Post
.... I apologize in advance..[/url]
Volume knob.


apology accepted.
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26th January 2007
Old 26th January 2007
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Quote:
'm talking about Blink 182, Korn, and bands like that who's levels I just can't seem to match.
With those bands, with their sounds, their producers and engineers, their songs and mixes, volume is probably not a huge task. 95% of the potential is in the mix. 95% of the mix is in the core sounds and who's playing them.
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26th January 2007
Old 26th January 2007
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errrr.... how do you justify the copy on your website:

"Mastering is the final process of your recording project before replication or duplication. Mastering involves improving on the FINAL STEREO mix. The mastering process can include adding fades, silencing or removing unwanted sections of a song, volume maximization, compression and limiting, EQ adjustments, adding overall effects, and so on... to the FINAL STEREO mix.

We have software AND hardware tools for the mastering process. We use Pro Tools and Bias Peak software plus outboard compressors, limiters, and EQ. Our analog hardware tools include the Manley Massive Passive EQ, Manley Variable MU compressor, the Waves L2 Limiter, and a pair of the Empirical Labs EL8-X Distressors. Our software tools are abundant as well.

For Mastering, accurate monitor speakers are a must. We use the biamped, 280 watt Event Studio Precision 8 with a 200 watt KRK 10" subwoofer to help us make those important final decisions."

My advice- get the **** out of the mastering game.
You don't really know what you are doing.
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#5
26th January 2007
Old 26th January 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Masterer View Post
Volume knob.


apology accepted.



Are you using one?
#6
26th January 2007
Old 26th January 2007
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read "bob katz" his book.
4 a start.
if you wanna master now you wil f#ck your mixes up
you MUST have a good monitor system(4 mastering) and a treated room(4 mastering)..........kids lol
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26th January 2007
Old 26th January 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bartrose View Post
I know, we are trying to avoid this but sometimes the clients demand it. See, I record alot of modern rock, pop punk, metal, etc. Are there any quick tips on what gear is being used to get those Insanely loud, yet still pretty clean mixes? Does the TC Finalizer play a big role in this? I'm talking about Blink 182, Korn, and bands like that who's levels I just can't seem to match. I mean, I can get close, but still cannot get the clean, loud levels those guys are getting. I also know that I don't have a dedicated mastering studio, because I mostly do tracking and mixing. Here is a quick rundown of the gear I've got. Do I have the tools to do this kind of work? I have: Manley Massive Passive EQ, Manley Variable MU compressor, L2 hardware limiter, a pair of Distressors, plus plenty of plugins, including the Waves Gold bundle, running on Pro Tools HD3 system. Hopefully I won't piss off too many of you who are trying to reverse the volume wars.. If so, I apologize in advance.. Bart Rose www.firststreetaudio.com
Nothing wrong with the equipment. So the difference must be... let me think, maybe:
-ears,
-talent,
-experience
Starting from a great mix is also usually pretty important. If your mixes are not good enough, even the best ME won't be able to do miracles.

... And yes, post such as this do get on the nerve of those amongst us who do this as a profession and have amassed decades of experience to help them achieve that very fine balance between loudness (as dictated by the current market) and clarity.
It grates seeing all & sundry jumping on the mastering bandwagon thinking all they need are the right tools. Give a Stradivarius to a new violin player: it will still sound like crap!
#8
26th January 2007
Old 26th January 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bartrose View Post
I know, we are trying to avoid this but sometimes the clients demand it....
Good converters can be clipped very loud (if the mix is fairly balanced). But if the mix isn't balanced and you don't care about it (although you should), the cheapest decent way is to get Sony Oxford Inflator and use it in multi-band mode. Does the job 10x better than L2. Maybe that's what your clients ask for. Forget about Finalizer it really doesn't make things much louder these days...
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26th January 2007
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Can we ban all these posts on ''How to get my mixes loud'' Because they are ruining a good forum.If it carries on i am going to have to get a hoby
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26th January 2007
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Sometimes a mix sounds louder than it actually is.

Better to aim at that and try to keep some dynamics instead of
squeeze the mix up against the roof/ceiling until it gets as flat as the
roof/ceiling paint.

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26th January 2007
Old 26th January 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Yordan View Post
try to keep some dynamics
#12
26th January 2007
Old 26th January 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bartrose View Post
I know, we are trying to avoid this but sometimes the clients demand it. See, I record alot of modern rock, pop punk, metal, etc. Are there any quick tips on what gear is being used to get those Insanely loud, yet still pretty clean mixes? Does the TC Finalizer play a big role in this? I'm talking about Blink 182, Korn, and bands like that who's levels I just can't seem to match. I mean, I can get close, but still cannot get the clean, loud levels those guys are getting. I also know that I don't have a dedicated mastering studio, because I mostly do tracking and mixing. Here is a quick rundown of the gear I've got. Do I have the tools to do this kind of work? I have: Manley Massive Passive EQ, Manley Variable MU compressor, L2 hardware limiter, a pair of Distressors, plus plenty of plugins, including the Waves Gold bundle, running on Pro Tools HD3 system. Hopefully I won't piss off too many of you who are trying to reverse the volume wars.. If so, I apologize in advance.. Bart Rose www.firststreetaudio.com
I have made a top 10 - list of contributing ingredients:

1. Close high quality miking, low amounts of distortion
2. Efficient input gain + amplification
3. Efficient compression/limiting
4. Low monitoring volume
5. Few elements in the mix, tracked in mono
6. Minimal overall track volume and EQ reduction
7. Hi-mid frequency boost
8. Using delay instead of reverb
9. Reducing high peaks with track fader automation
10. Hi-resolution summing engine
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26th January 2007
Old 26th January 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richmondjames View Post
errrr.... how do you justify the copy on your website:

"Mastering is the final process of your recording project before replication or duplication. Mastering involves improving on the FINAL STEREO mix. The mastering process can include adding fades, silencing or removing unwanted sections of a song, volume maximization, compression and limiting, EQ adjustments, adding overall effects, and so on... to the FINAL STEREO mix.

We have software AND hardware tools for the mastering process. We use Pro Tools and Bias Peak software plus outboard compressors, limiters, and EQ. Our analog hardware tools include the Manley Massive Passive EQ, Manley Variable MU compressor, the Waves L2 Limiter, and a pair of the Empirical Labs EL8-X Distressors. Our software tools are abundant as well.

For Mastering, accurate monitor speakers are a must. We use the biamped, 280 watt Event Studio Precision 8 with a 200 watt KRK 10" subwoofer to help us make those important final decisions."

My advice- get the **** out of the mastering game.
You don't really know what you are doing.
this is pretty much the most useless thing i've seen posted all day. keep that new jersey stereotype alive!
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26th January 2007
Old 26th January 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richmondjames View Post
errrr.... how do you justify the copy on your website:

My advice- get the **** out of the mastering game.
You don't really know what you are doing.
This is funny..... but so also so sad. I see more and more studios advertize that they do Mastering and they have no clue what the hell they are doing. Most just strap an L2 to the 2-bus and call it good. I must have missed the Mastering room on his site. Did anyone find it??
You've got a funny website.... keep up the humor!

Regards,
Bruce
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bartrose
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26th January 2007
Old 26th January 2007
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I thought the purpose of a forum like this is to help others? I'm trying to learn, and I WILL get better. I'm not just going to "give up" and "get out of the mastering game". Thanks to those of you who are willing to help and not try to make newbies feel like a**holes. BR
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26th January 2007
Old 26th January 2007
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I don't mean to be a jerk...

but really. buying gear to do a job, then asking how to do said job on a forum is a little backwards isn't it?

We all gotta start somewhere, we all learn every day, but the best and i'd even say cheapest way to a super loud mix, is to send a good mix, with dynamics to a mastering guy who has spent the time learning how to make it loud.

brad blackwood made a mix of mine very loud, and i still like it.

he is just one example of someone who lives and breathes mastering, as much as I live and breathe tracking and mixing.

the sad fact is, gear is too easy to buy.

we have no apprenticeship anymore.

no value for the years of learing the craft.

sorry to burst anyone's bubble, but it is the indian, NOT the arrow, and always has been, and most of the old indian chiefs are too busy ducking freshly bought banjo depot arrows being fired in random directions to teach any newbies how to really shoot.

YMMV,
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#17
26th January 2007
Old 26th January 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by treymonfauntre View Post
this is pretty much the most useless thing i've seen posted all day. keep that new jersey stereotype alive!
I'm an Australian- I just live in Jersey- way to jump to a conclusion there fella.
I stand by my point.

These places that advertise all-in-one mixing and mastering are really a problem.
The copy on his website is trying to pass his business off as a pro mastering place yet he can't do the job.
Just owning a bunch of stuff doesn't mean you can do the job.

I will apologise for being a bit snippy about it- I guess I'm a bit tired of these sorts of posts.

To the original poster- people here generally will help you- but you need to ask better questions.
You've essentially come here and said 'How do I master?'
Best advice there is go and intern with an established mastering engineer with a great room.

You seem to be doing the mastering as a 'value add' service.
You are not adding value though- your room isn't tuned- you master in your mix room.
I am guessing that you are mastering your own mixes. Yes?

The idea with mastering is to get a different (and experienced/specialised person at that) to be an objective resource for your mixes.

Last edited by octatonic; 26th January 2007 at 10:33 PM.. Reason: more points
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26th January 2007
Old 26th January 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crna59 View Post
This is funny..... but so also so sad. I see more and more studios advertize that they do Mastering and they have no clue what the hell they are doing. Most just strap an L2 to the 2-bus and call it good. I must have missed the Mastering room on his site. Did anyone find it??
You've got a funny website.... keep up the humor!

Regards,
Bruce
No kidding.

Advice to the original poster: try to get loud and clean with the arrangement, tracking and mix. If you can't, maybe that is what you should be working on and not on "mastering" techniques. No one box or technique will get you there.

I would also advise that you try to see if there's a local mastering house in town that does good work, and to form a good relationship with them. That might even end up netting you more work, and will definitely go a long way in making your clients satisfied.

If your goal is to master, then do as richmondjames suggests and intern at a reputable mastering place with a good engineer.
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27th January 2007
Old 27th January 2007
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Hi Bart,

Here's what I would try if you want to make things alittle louder…

1. Record, Mix and Master at 88.2 – at higher sample rates plug-in's sound (at least to me) like they can be pushed harder before they sound unpleasant in the mid base. (You may already be doing recording at higher sampler rates…)

2. Instead of L2 – try using the limiter from McDSP's ML4000 or the Massey L2007 - both can be pushed hard with less artifacts than L2.

3. Rely on the Veri-Mu color and vibe - not as the sole compression tool – share the compression responsibilities with a multi band compressor. I would try the ML4000 multi band first - then try the TC MD3 as an alternative.

4. Make POWr dither the last plug-in in your chain (you’re probably already doing this) and do a sample rate convert for 88.2 to 44.1 via the Tweak Head… one of my clients preferred this to an analog recapture at 44.1 – so it's personal preference at that point…

Basically – replace the L2 with the ML4000 and you can make things louder with less artifacts - especially at higher sample rates…
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27th January 2007
Old 27th January 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bartrose View Post
I thought the purpose of a forum like this is to help others? I'm trying to learn, and I WILL get better. I'm not just going to "give up" and "get out of the mastering game". Thanks to those of you who are willing to help and not try to make newbies feel like a**holes. BR
Read the new EQ mag, it's full of shit that'll help you out.
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27th January 2007
Old 27th January 2007
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Hey Bart.....

I have been in your shoes maybe I can help a little... sorry for the long post.

First point.... Your thought process behind the question you are asking is hurting your business! THIS IS KEY!

You have a nice set up there for tracking / mixing. Some pretty good equipment, great looking room etc. Learn to be good at one thing, it is a very special talent that can do mixing, tracking, producing and mastering. Most guys don't do that so take a few minutes to think to yourself what are you really interested in?

If you are interested in making money with your studio (nothing wrong with that at all) then let me offer this advice.

You will make more money if you get to be a really really good tracking / mixing engineer OR a really really good mastering engineer. If you try to do too much you will fail at both. Jack of all trades master of none if you know what I mean.

IF you want to be an ME, ditch your studio (because it is not a mastering studio it is a tracking / mix studio) and got get a gig working in a mastering house learning the craft. If you want to be a tracking mix guy then don't pretend to be anything else.

That said..... I know how it is to have clients who are broke and not willing to do traditional mastering. You should do everything in your power to strike up a good working relationship with an ME, maybe even someone on this board who is willing to do good work for a reasonable $ amount and who is willing to do a 30 second demo for your clients... trust me that convinces 99 out of 100 bands / artists that they need to take that last step.

Remember that you will always be judged by your finished product and an experienced ME will make your studio more money even if you are turning away that last few $ for outside mastering. Be a good business owner and don't look for all the money from one client, look for less money from more clients and you will win in the long run.

Good luck.
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27th January 2007
Old 27th January 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bartrose View Post
I know, we are trying to avoid this but sometimes the clients demand it. See, I record alot of modern rock, pop punk, metal, etc. Are there any quick tips on what gear is being used to get those Insanely loud, yet still pretty clean mixes? Does the TC Finalizer play a big role in this? I'm talking about Blink 182, Korn, and bands like that who's levels I just can't seem to match. I mean, I can get close, but still cannot get the clean, loud levels those guys are getting. I also know that I don't have a dedicated mastering studio, because I mostly do tracking and mixing. Here is a quick rundown of the gear I've got. Do I have the tools to do this kind of work? I have: Manley Massive Passive EQ, Manley Variable MU compressor, L2 hardware limiter, a pair of Distressors, plus plenty of plugins, including the Waves Gold bundle, running on Pro Tools HD3 system. Hopefully I won't piss off too many of you who are trying to reverse the volume wars.. If so, I apologize in advance.. Bart Rose www.firststreetaudio.com
For starters ... you were humble and honest. So it's sad to see, once again, this board going the way of some other supposedly professional boards where cock measuring and put downs are more numerous than actual kindness and informative posts. I agree with many and think you're confused, but you think so too and have asked for help. So those insulting you are way off.

Back on topic, I dont understand your question. Is this a mixing-for-eventually-loud, or a mastering loud question?

Mixing-for-loud is about arrangement, performance, quality tracking, good eq and level balances ... and not smashing the mix for levels. I have a page on my site that's been helpful to some mixers thinking about loudness, mixing and mastering.

Mastering loud is about small steps adding up (and some that are not so small). Step 1 is defining the line in the sand between loud and shit (this is mostly determined by the client but you need to have your own internal compass first), #2 is not a small step - it's your monitoring (room/speakers), 3 is eq balance adjustments - also big, 4 is limiting/clipping in small amounts - not as big as room and eq ... and 5 is compression in small amounts. So it's a game of inches. Everyone has similar gear, a few eqs, a limiter or clipper AD, a compressor or two ... it's not always the gear, but it is to the extent that gear has both a sound and some intrinsic power to help. Gear, like production, is all about the most advantageous compromises.

As for your mastering gear, and assuming a better monitoring situation (including converters) the Manley stuff would not be my first or second choice although some use each of those fine components well. The MP is best for mids at tracking and mixing as the highs and lows are not clean enough for mastering IMO. I fought one for a year or two once and don't miss it. The Vari Mu is fine but I'd look to get the sidechain mod. Sell the finalizer while you still can.


Dear board,

This thread again shows how the GS Mastering corner, unlike most of Gearslutz, is right now leaning more and more towards becoming a cocky jerk zone ... an often ugly place where the power hungry take aim and fire (often anonymously, but not always) ... and that's not only pathetic on a personal level - it's a boring and divisive read. Reality check: There are going to be newbies in tracking, mixing and mastering engineering just like there have been newbies in music making since the electric guitar ... and it's not stopping because you think you're better than someone else or had a better internship/apprenticeship, or because you have a list of credits that make you proud. Please get over your insults, because you're not helping music making or the world of engineering by being an asshole to an honest poster.

Apprenticeships in musicianship have been dead in the main for years. On one hand, that sucks and so does a lot of the music the amateurs (untrained enthusiasts) produce ... and on the other it's cool because the door is open wide and a few things come through the fray that would not exist otherwise. I like a lot of punk spirited music and a lot of the self-produced work from the 'naive' who have never practiced for hours a day for years on end far more than I enjoy the book-smart and learned musics of twits with no heart and lots of finger athletics and/or pedigree. Equipment buying has overtaken music buying in dollar volume thanks in no small part to that amazing music that the 'experienced' are putting out ... so apprenticeships in recording are often happening right here, as it were.

Let it be, eh? The sky is not falling just because junior has a MP and Vari Mu, is untrained in how to use them, and asks for your help.
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#23
27th January 2007
Old 27th January 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucey View Post
Let it be, eh? The sky is not falling just because junior has a MP and Vari Mu, is untrained in how to use them, and asks for your help.
Let me say also that anyone can buy Mastering gear and call themselves ME's. Now, when someone comes in here and starts asking how they can make their mixes loud, then that's when we have to sit them down and try to steer them in the right direction. Buying Mastering gear doesn't do sh*t when you don't have the very basics and infrastructure. You can see it in the other threads. "I've got $XXXXX.00 and I want to open a studio.... What equipment shoud I buy?". O'kay... what's your business plan. How's your sound isolation... etc.....etc...
Let me expand on this... If you take that money that you paid for the MP and Vari-mu and put it towards your room and monitoring... then we can talk. You can buy some great monitors/amp/room treatments for under $10k. These people are missing the point. They need to know what Mastering is all about. Mastering is NOT about getting it louder. If more tracking/mix engineers educate their clients then most of the ME's wouldn't feel threatened or what have you.
For an analogy it's like buying the shiniest rims when you don't even have a car to drive. People have become money hungry and it's sad. When a tracking/mix engineer comes on here and wants a quick fix then we feel threatened that it will take food out of our mouths. I love the post by not_so_new. We need to educate our clients so they know where to go and what is expected. There are plenty of ME's that will do great affordable Mastering. This business is all about networking and who you know. Get out there and network guys. You're not going to get Mastering jobs off the street!

Regards,
Bruce
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#24
27th January 2007
Old 27th January 2007
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To directly answer the question without patronizing:

In order to increase average level to insane points while attempting to minimize artifacts (like lost transients, distortion, and graininess) the methods used by ME's are:

* 1st getting a well balanced frequency spectrum - and usually slightly forward upper mids will get things seeming "louder"
* possibly some amount of compression (usually done in the analog realm)
* possibly some amount of clipping (aka "flat topping") - either done at the input of the ADC (and generally you need a high quality to converter for this to sound ok), or done by overloading a digital gain stage
* possibly the use of one or more digital peak limiters

Which one or combination of these methods is "best" is completely dependent on the track - and this is where experience and an ear (which also assumes a decent monitoring environment) comes in is determining the settings which will get the desired goal (in this case, crushed but still living) with the least amount of damage to the integrity of the audio.

In regards to the TC Finalizer - to my ear there are a number of better sounding processors available today than this box.

Finally - again - there is no one "magic bullet" in this - each track will need soemthing different to get it slammed and each track has a "maximum potential" for being able to deal with getting crushed based on the mix iteslf.

Best regards,
Steve Berson
#25
27th January 2007
Old 27th January 2007
  #25
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Nice friendly crowd...

Well, so far I have only seen one answer to this gentleman's inquiry. Why the harsh treatment, lads? I am just putting together my own mastering room. I hope the environment warms up a bit by the time I get the courage to start asking my own questions! Let he who is without fault cast the first insults. One man's stupid question is another man's genuine search for knowledge. Anyway...

If you want to get a loud "master" you first of all need a good mix! It is very difficult to get a loud, punchy master from a weak mix. But try this cocktail for a quick jolt of insane loudness...
Use your finalizer on the "CD Premaster" setting. Get that sounding moderately loud and clean. Then run that into your L2 hardware unit and squash away. If you are asking how to "master" for loudness it's quite a bit more complicated as indicated by the other folks.

I hope that helps your original question. By the way, you've got a great start on gear if you can figure out how to use it for the purpose you stated!
#26
27th January 2007
Old 27th January 2007
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what a grumpy thread. i'm only 27, but have owned my own studio in one form or another for over a decade. i don't pretend to be a ME, but that being said, in my small town that has no dedicated ME, i'm the best thing going. when i consider all the chnages that have occured since i first started in the industry i'm amazed. i can't imagine what it people with more years feel with the proliferation of gear, software and rooms popping up all around. this forum IS apprenticship for a lot of people, and if you want to be a jerk don't bother posting, just ignore the question and move on.

loud masters: the mix has to have the loudness potential. anything i've heard that is successful in remaining musical and being ultra-loud was already sounding amazing, full and aggressive before the ME touched it. i don't mix that well (yet). it's the fader moves, the compression on the tracks (not the 2 bus) and mostly the arrangment and the players that determines this. consistent drumming, locked bass playing etc. if all of this isn't in the equation by the time you start mastering, the loudness potential won't be there and you can push and push but it's going to get harsh. great ME get to work with great mixes by and large. i have heard incredible masters come from ITB.

I'm from Sarnia, Ontario... not a big area, so I'm the dude doing the mastering here. it would be prudent to keep in mind that we all don't live in larger center's with apprentice opprotunity, let alone an actual mastering house.

i'm sick of the "how dare she/he ask that question" mentality. it's mean and bitter i say.... mean and bitter.
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#27
27th January 2007
Old 27th January 2007
  #27
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Originally Posted by crna59 View Post
Let me say also that anyone can buy Mastering gear and call themselves ME's.
Lucey and I fall into that category. My business card says ME but in fact my real job is a part time furniture salesman.
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#28
27th January 2007
Old 27th January 2007
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by punisher View Post
Lucey and I fall into that category. My business card says ME but in fact my real job is a part time furniture salesman.
Punisher, Randy and Brian,
can we please leave the personal stuff where it belongs?
P.M. if you wish.
Cheers
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#29
27th January 2007
Old 27th January 2007
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lord_bunny View Post
what a grumpy thread. i'm only 27, but have owned my own studio in one form or another for over a decade. i don't pretend to be a ME, but that being said, in my small town that has no dedicated ME, i'm the best thing going. when i consider all the chnages that have occured since i first started in the industry i'm amazed. i can't imagine what it people with more years feel with the proliferation of gear, software and rooms popping up all around. this forum IS apprenticship for a lot of people, and if you want to be a jerk don't bother posting, just ignore the question and move on.
There are very good points (and different points od view of course) in this thread.

The problem I feel is that things got mixed up. There are distinctions to be made on all accounts.

Lord Bunny and Brian are saying that things have changed. Difficult to get a job as an assistant, production assistant and so on in order to learn the craft. That is true, we all know that. The difference is that in the past an assistant would look, look again, think, think again, question himself, spend a LOT of time again looking, listening and then maybe ask the A.E. I mean the relationship was different

This is a place where you can ask questions, there is no doubt about it.
Some people might react in a more colourful way but I don't think you should in any way take that as an insult but rather as a constructive criticism.

If some comments seems harsh, try go deeper, it mmay well be a stymulus. Ask yourself why you got such a reaction, don't take it personally.

Also there are ways and ways of asking for things and diferent people will react differently depending on how ypou pose a question.

Don't forget that in any relationship you take and give, you can't pretend to be given something . If you learn how to relate to people that have been doing this for a long time you'll get much more out of them.
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#30
27th January 2007
Old 27th January 2007
  #30
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Rocket science?

Hi Bart,

I don't think anyone here things you're a bunghole, but as you point out you ARE a newbie.

Would you go to a newbie to master YOUR music?

I think you could ask anyone here what gear they use, and find that people are using all sorts of stuff, yet still delivering great results. I.e. it's not about the gear (although the Finalizer isn't helping you any... )

So while mastering isn't rocket science or brain surgury, it does take one thing that pretty much any endeavor does if you really want to be good at it:

Experience.

I think that both Not_so_new and Bruce both had excellent points - what is it you're trying to do? What's your busieness plan/goal? If your serious, you'll need to learn, and you'll have to start from the beginning. OTOH, you do have a nice setup for tracking and mixing. In my experience, getting those huge sounding masters is 90% the tracking and mixing, we're just giving the last little kick in the *ss and making sure your home stereo doesn't blow up.

So if you want to work with mastering, you might want to see if there's anyone who'll take you on. There was just recently a thread here (or on RecForums, not sure) about apprenticing. The best way to learn, IMHO. Other than that, I would recommend learning to listen and sharpening your listening skills and listening environment as much as possible. Coming from an audiophile background, I already knew how to hear the difference between speaker cables, power cables, and magic discs placed under equipment ... As well as having auditioned countless hi fi setups, room treatments, etc.

But seriously, like any trade, you need to learn. Wanting to learn is fine. Hanging up a sign saying you're an ME because you have some gear and have read a book or two is not. Would you buy a hammer, timber and nails and offer to build houses for people?

So I agree with the people who encourage you to first figure out what it is you really want to do, and become as proficient as you can at that one thing. Expertise is underrrated, but will pay you back in the long run. If you want to learn, that's great. I think people (here and elsewhere) will be more than willing to help you learn. But learning doesn't start with a shopping list of what gear to buy to 'be a pro'. Nor does learning mean you can or should charge people so that you can learn. Don't quit that day job just yet...

You've already received many posts explaining in general how to arrive at superloud levels. My advice (worth exactly what you paid for it) is to get some great sounding records of different types of music (classical, folk, jazz, world, pop, rock, country, metal, etc) and learn to listen. Read the acoustics forum at RecForums or elsewhere. Get your room treated, evaluate quite a few pairs of monitors and see how things change from system to system. Train your ears. 'Practice' mastering mixes you do, friends do, even Cd's you don't think sound too hot. Compare, listen, compare some more. Come here and ask (intelligent) questions.

As for Lucey and the other 'let's not come down so hard on him', I agree there's no need to bash on the newbies for sport, but his question shows what's wrong with the whole attitude and understanding of our (or any) trade. DIY is fine, but presenting yourself as something you're not to others commercially is bogus. Better to nip it in the bud, IMHO.

My 2 euro cents.

Thor


Quote:
Originally Posted by bartrose View Post
I thought the purpose of a forum like this is to help others? I'm trying to learn, and I WILL get better. I'm not just going to "give up" and "get out of the mastering game". Thanks to those of you who are willing to help and not try to make newbies feel like a**holes. BR
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