help me choosing Dynaudio Monitors and a "reasonably priced" converter

[Alécio Costa]

Hi, folks
a)Have you ever used the Dynaudio Bm6A, B5A or BM15 for mastering?
I am trying to grow from a modest setup and I do know that nice monitoring is pretty important for mastering tasks.

b)I also do intend to buy a converter, (d/a a/d). Would you recommend me Apogee? Does the L2 hardware have a nice a/d d/a stage? At the moment all I have as my best converter is an 02R96V2.

Thanks
Current rig: Pro Tools TDM Mix4, 02R96V2, 01v96, 3 Adat Bridges, Waves/PSP/TC plugins
Pendulum OCL2, Monster Cabling, Monitor Ones MK2

[flail19]

Alécio how much do you want to spend? For low end (around 700 bones USD) I use the RME ADI2.

[Riccardo]

Used both BM6a and BM15 in a mixing context, not mastering.
I'd say the BM15 if you have to choose between those three.
You might also have a look at other options in the same price range or maybe keep an eye to the second hand market?

[Alécio Costa]

thanks, guys.
BTW, my room is 6x3.5 (meters). Height: 2.7m
It has a nice sound.
The converter could be in the U$1500-U$2000 price range.
I have to save some money for the monitorsalso. Dynaudios are pretty expensive on here.
What other monitors in their class would you guys recommend me?

[bob katz]

Originally Posted by Alécio Costa

Hi, folks
a)Have you ever used the Dynaudio Bm6A, B5A or BM15 for mastering?

Mastering is about learning how to help a program translate over the widest variety of systems. Considering that the systems range from an Ipod earphone to a club with 36" woofers, I think a BM6 or 5 is too much in the "small range" and has too little dynamic range to help you get the tools to see if the master is translating. If I were pushed up against the wall, I'd guess the BM15A would be a good "starter" speaker for a startup mastering studio, but only if you don't have the budget to buy a set of used B&W's, for example.

[/quote]

b)I also do intend to buy a converter, (d/a a/d). Would you recommend me Apogee? Does the L2 hardware have a nice a/d d/a stage? At the moment all I have as my best converter is an 02R96V2.

[quote]

The new Apogee series is respectable but I think there are better converters, depends on your budget. The best bang for the buck I think is in Benchmark or Mytek.

The L2 hardware is no longer made to my knowledge. The replacement is the new MaxBCL box. You can't use the Waves as a dedicated D/A because you have to separate the DAC from the processing. What is lacking is an insert point that would separate the D/A circuit from the processing circuit. Regardless, in general I would not recommend using the integrated converters in any processing piece of gear as they are generally not "boutique-quality" converters. Always consider separates, however, the A/D in the L2 hardware is a very respectable one for an integrated unit. With the exception of the Cranesong HEDD-192, whose converters, if not "world class" are definitely excellent, and can be separated from the processing chain. However, you still need an additional separate DAC from the one in the HEDD in order to monitor a "disinterested source".

But then there is the question of just how much converter you need to do your job. A mid-priced separate in the Benchmark or Mytek category would do you well as a starter and be better than the one in O2R you are using. I'm still using DACs in this category or slightly better myself!

Hope this helps,


BK

[Alécio Costa]

Many thanks, Bob!
I´m afraid it will be almost impossible to find BeWs on here, specially used. I guess Homero (fellowBrazilian mastering engineeer) is one of the very few who have them on here.

a)Besides the BM15A (seems overpowered for my room) and the BeWs. Anything else?

b)Would you recommend me a specific model of these Apogee /Mytek boxes?

BTw... My OCL2 purchase was based on Brad, DC and in your tips.

[UnderTow]

Originally Posted by Alécio Costa

Many thanks, Bob!
I´m afraid it will be almost impossible to find BeWs on here, specially used. I guess Homero (fellowBrazilian mastering engineeer) is one of the very few who have them on here.

a)Besides the BM15A (seems overpowered for my room) and the BeWs. Anything else?

I'm not exactly sure of the price of the BM15's so I might be looking at a slightly different class but I am seriously considering buying the Klein+Hummel O300D speakers in the next month or so.

More info here: http://www.klein-hummel.com/klein-hu...-monitors_O300

Alistair

[ToddS]

Originally Posted by Alécio Costa

Many thanks, Bob!
I´m afraid it will be almost impossible to find BeWs on here, specially used. I guess Homero (fellowBrazilian mastering engineeer) is one of the very few who have them on here.

a)Besides the BM15A (seems overpowered for my room) and the BeWs. Anything else?

b)Would you recommend me a specific model of these Apogee /Mytek boxes?

BTw... My OCL2 purchase was based on Brad, DC and in your tips.

BM6A's are great speakers...same characteristics as the BM15As, just smaller. I have done double blind listening tests with all of the usual suspects when it comes to converters and I dont believe you can do better than the Apogee's even by spending twice as much. I personally sold my Prisms after hearing the AD and DA-16X.

[neon]

I Really think that you should consider seriously to check the Focal Monitors!
The Solo 6 o The Twin 6 Depending on your budget.

They are high end active monitors that are not hype at all..and really are so good.

[Alécio Costa]

sure!Please, keep it coming!!

[Thor]

Oi Alécio,

tudo bom meu amigo? Você vai fazer um estudio de masterizado? Parabens!

You've already received a lot of good suggestions. If you're set on Dynaudio, I'd say go with the 15's. For that price, you could probably pick up a used pair of Quested's and find decent amp somewhere.

As for converters, I haven't heard the latest from Apogee. What I have heard made me look for something else. I think you can get a lot done with a Benchmark. Lynx makes some nice I/O + converter cards that are reasonably priced. I worked with the CraneSong HEDD for several years and it was more than nice enough, plus you get the DSP emulations (Triode, Pentode and Tape) that are very nice to have. I think they end up getting used on more than half of the projects I do. Another alternative would be the Lavry Blue (modular, you can buy just the modules you need and expand later), or my favourite in a recent shootout, the Mytek 8x192. The L2 was used as a converter by quite a few rooms when it came out, the converters are decent and you can find them used on eBay and other places.

I know that Brasil often charges very high tolls and taxes on imported goods, but what about buying stuff yourself from f.x. eBay. Is that problematic from where you are? That might really open up your options if you could do that.

Another thing to think about is what is your market and what is your budget. I.e. are you planning on competing directly against Ricardo at Magic, or aiming at more local customers in Southern Brasil first?

One thing I would also spend time (and money) getting in order, is the room/acoustics where you will be working. No point in spending lots of money on nice gear if your room is working against you!

Best of luck!

Cheers,
Thor

Originally Posted by Alécio Costa

Hi, folks
a)Have you ever used the Dynaudio Bm6A, B5A or BM15 for mastering?
I am trying to grow from a modest setup and I do know that nice monitoring is pretty important for mastering tasks.

b)I also do intend to buy a converter, (d/a a/d). Would you recommend me Apogee? Does the L2 hardware have a nice a/d d/a stage? At the moment all I have as my best converter is an 02R96V2.

Thanks
Current rig: Pro Tools TDM Mix4, 02R96V2, 01v96, 3 Adat Bridges, Waves/PSP/TC plugins
Pendulum OCL2, Monster Cabling, Monitor Ones MK2

[bob katz]

Originally Posted by UnderTow

I'm not exactly sure of the price of the BM15's so I might be looking at a slightly different class but I am seriously considering buying the Klein+Hummel O300D speakers in the next month or so.

More info here: http://www.klein-hummel.com/klein-hu...-monitors_O300

Alistair

I have a lot of respect for that model of the K&H's based strictly on hearing the results of mixes that have been made on them that I have mastered----which were so "right on" that I had absolutely no EQ to do and the dynamics of the mix were top notch. I would definitely consider the K&H's and I'm sure they are NOT CHEAP.

As for the monitor and your size of room, well, what size of room do you have? What is the wall construction? And do you have the freedom to locate your listening position in the ideal spot in the room and the monitors in the ideal spot?

For mastering, as far as I'm concerned, anything smaller than a BM15A should be ruled out, or the room in which you are planning on using them should be ruled out. Sorry to be so blunt.

PMC makes very good monitors, ATC, and Dynaudio as well. But don't skimp on size or headroom for loudspeakers which are intended for MASTERING PURPOSES.

BK

[lucey]

hi Alecio, I had BM6As once, then added a sub. Dont do it. Dont even do a 2 way like the 15. You need full range, and you expecially need a lot of clarity below 500 and all the way down to 40, at least.

Mastering is sometimes this and sometimes that, but it's nearly always about low mid and low end issues ... and it's VERY hard to easily correct those on 2 ways unless you're room is great and you're very experienced with a trusty set of beloved speakers. I had a hard time on BM6As with a sub and without, and having gone through some stages since I can't say enough about the Barefoot line as an alternative to larger speakers.

No matter what you do, if you want to master easily and at a high level, aim very high with your room and monitoring, it's your best investment by far.

[Alécio Costa]

Many thanks, guys. I´d better open a coffeeshop. LOL
(no way....)

[UnderTow]

Originally Posted by bob katz

I would definitely consider the K&H's and I'm sure they are NOT CHEAP.

I just checked prices here in Europe. I can get a new pair of O300D's for about 3000 Euro -ex TVA (arround 3700 USD). That is 850 Euro (1035 USD) more than a pair of BM15A.

I have no idea how that translates to prices in Brazil...

Alistair

[Alécio Costa]

HI, Bob
My room is (6x3.5) meters. Height: 2.7m

Walls:paralell with fiberglass covered with wood.
Right over the mix spot there is a "cloud", also covered with foberglass.
I may post a pic here.

Wes Lachot and Ethan Winer, these two incredible guys, helped me a lot deciding stuff.

The room sounds pretty nice and have translated pretty well, even using cheap monitoring, like the Monitor Ones MK2.

I have some minor difficulty judging the low end, sometimes, what occasionally makes me do a recall in the junior mastering tasks, and cut a little more in the 30-40hz range and at the 117-400 hz range. ( sometimes with the help of a HPF towards 37hz).


I am still in doubt about the converter part, if pick some stuff by Apogee, LAvry or Mytek.

Unfortunately, most of these brands are not present at brazilian market, and when pop up, are provided with astronomical prices.

Concerning monitors: there are two japanese brothers developing pretty good monitors, starting to get a very positive hype among the big studios here. They use TAD parts., and important, they do tuning at its final location.

I will be checking their stuff at close future this year.

[masteringhouse]

Originally Posted by lucey

hi Alecio, I had BM6As once, then added a sub. Dont do it. Dont even do a 2 way like the 15. You need full range, and you expecially need a lot of clarity below 500 and all the way down to 40, at least.

Mastering is sometimes this and sometimes that, but it's nearly always about low mid and low end issues ... and it's VERY hard to easily correct those on 2 ways unless you're room is great and you're very experienced with a trusty set of beloved speakers. I had a hard time on BM6As with a sub and without, and having gone through some stages since I can't say enough about the Barefoot line as an alternative to larger speakers.

No matter what you do, if you want to master easily and at a high level, aim very high with your room and monitoring, it's your best investment by far.

I had BM15's with a BX-30 sub and have to agree with Brian. Go full range unless you plan on working in surround. While you can get used to them, it's not the most revealing setup and takes a fair amount of "living with them" to know how they translate.

[Alécio Costa]

sure!

[thestudioguy]

I definately agree with Bob Katz' suggestion to look for used B&Ws. It could be less expensive and more sonically accurate than BM15s with a sub.

Until yesterday I've been "ghetto" mastering on Dynaudio BM15 monitors with a Crown DC300A. Although the masters turn out ok, the experience getting there has always been frustrating. For me, BM15s don't go down low enough and the mids don't seem to translate well. Maybe that's too much to ask of a 2 way speaker.

Last night my intern and I hooked up a used pair of B&W 801 Matrix series III's to the Crown (yeah, I'm gonna eventually find another amp, bi-wire or biamp, get the bass filter yada yada) that I found for $2000 at the local high end audiophile shop.

I was floored! Tight bottom, silky top and I can hear EVERYTHING IN BETWEEN with the kind of detail that I've only heard at the Dave's (Collins and Glasser) rooms.

I'll be taking pics of the Dynaudios and posting them on Gearslutz this weekend.

Good advice, Bob (although you're not listening in for a while, right?)

my 2 cents. Good Luck!

[Thor]

Oi Alécio,

I did a converter shootout last fall, and the Mytek was in my opinion head and shoulders above everything else I tried. I didn't have a Prism or EMM to try, unfortunately.

As for purchasing, can't you simply purchase froma reputable dealer in another country? Maybe the US is close enough that you can order from there? I've ordered gear from Fletcher (Mercenary) on several occasions when things I've been looking for haven't been available locally.

Just a thought.

Até-logo,
Thor

Originally Posted by Alécio Costa

HI, Bob

I am still in doubt about the converter part, if pick some stuff by Apogee, LAvry or Mytek.

Unfortunately, most of these brands are not present at brazilian market, and when pop up, are provided with astronomical prices.

Concerning monitors: there are two japanese brothers developing pretty good monitors, starting to get a very positive hype among the big studios here. They use TAD parts., and important, they do tuning at its final location.

I will be checking their stuff at close future this year.

[digitalvoices]

Hi Alecio,

I have a pair of Dynaudio BM6a and a pair of B&W 802 matrix 3's. The Dynaudio's are great to mix on and good to A/B but for my ears the Dynaudio's (without subs) make judgement listening a bit of a struggle next to the 802 matrix. Check Audiogon.com, I recently picked up the 802's from there for under 2K, also 801 matrix are quite common. As you are in Brazil this may not be so easy with shipping and customs etc...

Also I agree about the mytek converters.....again used of ebay will save you a few 100 US on the new price and might help offset custom charges if any.

I'll second Mercenary Audio..... fair prices and extremely helpful.

ATB,

Julio

[Alécio Costa]

cool ideas. I´m taking note of evrything. please, anyone else with these BeWs?

[matucha]

KH O300D over BM15A for sure, the price difference isn't big and the difference in sound is astronomical (IMHO).

For smaller rooms and if you want to do some mixing as well I'd go with KH instead of B&W also, as near-mid fields KH are a bit more detailed than old B&W. But if you're going to do mastering only in a bigger room I'd choose B&W then .

[Alécio Costa]

seems there are lot of BeW models suited for mastering, right?

[BigAl]

B&W Nautilus

[Alécio Costa]

Price tag: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$